Thanks for the reference. Which scripture verse was that? You've got a good point.
The value we put on our own genes is an animal instinct, nothing more, it has ruled our species from the beginning and probably always will.
We could have peace instead of this.
And what good is peace, if you're the one who has to die for it? That's true. If someone in my family is killed. I don't want peace. I want vengeance. I know Christians believe that vengeance is Gods, but that's all just a hoax anyway right, so why shouldn't I take vengeance if that's what I truly want. What's stopping me? What's worth me foregoing vengeance? For me, it's not peace. Maybe for other people, but not me.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
We sang "Hope of Israel," today in Church and I thought about you guys. I usually hate church, but I must admit that I always feel the spirit when we sing that song. For all the bad I experienced in my mission, no life experience ever beat the brotherhood and comradery that I felt singing, "Hope of Israel" in the MTC.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
Setup, before this subject slips into silence I will pickon your point. My first post made an observation that the particular, avege the midianites instruction to which you are referring is an unusual instance and not at all the sum of Isreals relations to outsiders.
It could be noted that Moses was married to a Midianite and would have mixed seed with a Midianite regularly. His religious beliefs were in part a result of instruction from his Midianite father in law Jethro.
Howere the instructions in this particular conflict are harsh.
I do not read any rape here. What is the point of projecting that particular fantasy into the text?
Huckleberry, after killing all the menfolk and the non-virgins and taking the virgins for themselves, do you suppose their commandment from Jehova was for the Israelites to win and dine them, give them flowers, maybe read a little poetry, and then drop to their knee and propose marriage? And then, if the young virgins weren't amenable to that persuasion, take them back to their homes and help them rebuild their lives (albeit without any menfolk to help out around the farm)?
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
This is one more example of the phenomena of prophet infallibility. The ancient prophets were no more often correct than modern prophets. Why do we cling to the Bible as if it was inerrant? It is a record of one tribe's interaction with diety. We all know that interaction with diety is fraught with mistakes, misinterpretations, misinformation, and downright lies. Why do we assume the Bible is immune from this?
Well I do not believe in an infallible Bible. However I do not think there is much point in talking about it without taking the trouble to understand what it is saying. I do believe it valuable and inspired.
Midinianite girls, it is entirely possible they would be included with the girls already in Isreal to do the sort of thing young girls did. I presume they were treated as daughters.
Why would I have such a rosy view? Well to be blunt the problem was started with the Midianite women seducing the Isrealites. They were already sexually available. There would be no purpose to engaging in a war to obtain sexually available women. The whole point of the story is centered upon the fear of social corruption resulting from sexual promiscuity. Even if Moses is not alknowing it would make zero sense to recommend rape as an escape from the corruption of sexual promiscuity.
That's a good point Huckleberry. Yeah I think killing everyone would have been a difficult thing to do. I've heard estimates that only 20% of the soldiers fired their guns their first time in combat in WWII. That was a war that people seemed to be united in and believe in. These young men were just drafted and weren't just men who wound up in the military for financial reasons as most men today. It's sad to me to see these men lose life and limb under this foolish garbage of setting up democracy with a people who are utterly incapable of such a thing. I was fine with the idea of taking the oil to pay for the threat and mess Sadaam Huseein and the people who allowed them to rule caused, but sometimes I get the impression President Bush actually believes this setting up democracy idea.
I still think the counsel to kill everyone was inspired of God. Leaving survivors would have just caused strife, discord, and racial tension for years to come, and that's probably the best case scenario. The more likely scenario would be an insurgency and guerilla campaign that would pick your people off one by one.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
ajax18 wrote:I still think the counsel to kill everyone was inspired of God.
And this takes us full circle to the OP's main point. This the problem many people, including myself, have with the Bible and Bible believers.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
ajax18 wrote: These young men were just drafted and weren't just men who wound up in the military for financial reasons as most men today.
Wait just a second. Do you have anything to back this up, besides your own conclusions? Because I have a son in the military, and financial reasons were second on his list.
TD when did Jehovah order raping infidel women? I always remember him forbidding intermarriage and mixing of seed with non Jews.
I don't think "Jehovah" or anyone else ever odered raping "infidel women." What is in the Old Testament is Moses and Joshua believing God told them to slaughter whole communities... babies, children, young boys, families, elderly, and animals... and taking the unmarried girls for themselves. Are you unfamiliar with this story?
Ah yes, one of my favorite Bible verses. "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
That's so inspirational. It causes my eyes to moist up every time I read it.
I'm thinking of creating one of those Bible Quotes calendars, with pretty pictures of flowers, birds, and butterflies, but instead of having inspirational quotes, it will have these disturbing verses.