No Intellectual Discipline Without Formal Education.

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_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

If it weren't for the fact that I have taught for many years and worked with many difficult students I think I would be quite angry about Loran's belittling insults. However, I know that people who are insecure and unsure of themselves always have to put down others to make them feel better. Students often do this by arguing, insulting and antagonizing others, especially the teacher. Their superiority complex (perhaps inferiority complex) drives them to act so.

Confucious said "shu shi si de, xue xi shi huo de" which means 'studying is alive, and books are dead'. Education, whether its in formal surroundings or informal, depends on the individual and how they apply their knowledge. Having said that I think the most important thing is how a person uses their knowledge through interaction with others. Do they arrogantly flaunt technical vernacular to appear intelligent? Do they make personal attacks when their points are disproven? Are they egocentricaly opinionated? Are they open to new ideas?

A truely wise person listens more than they speak and thinks twice before judging others.




Blah, blah, yada yada. And I don't like people who white wash, excuse, and sugar coat the barbaric behavior of tyrants, despots, and thugs, and then try to spoon feed me the tired, old Marxist canard that the slaves are content on the plantation. But, your bombastic lies about the situation regarding freedom of religion in that country were the final straw.I have zero tolerance for people who hold beliefs of the kind you hold, and that is never going to change. You are beyond the pall. The fact that I have a great love for the Chinese people and their traditional culture and many of its values makes it all the more galling. I want them to be free and democratic. You would like them to remain serfs in the fields of thier Lords. We can never meet on this, knowlten, never.

Go defend Deng Xiao Ping and his communist police state to someone who has more tolerance for that kind of thing. I do not.
Last edited by Dr. Sunstoned on Fri May 25, 2007 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: No Intellectual Discipline Without Formal Education.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Coggins7 wrote:
You cannot possibly even understand the concept of "intellectual discipline," since you do not hold a college degree.



This was meant by Scratch to be, of course, another slur against my intelleigence and background, but that's not why I'm starting a new thread regarding it.

I'm just wondering what others here thinking of this concept; the concept of credentialism which says that if one has not been to college or university, one cannot have a deep, advanced, or substantive knowledge of anything and should be ignored out of hand. Now obviously, some things, like the natural and hard sciences, medicine, and practical matters such as the construction trades, require hands on experience, field work, and laboratory work. But why, for example, could one not be an expert on seventeenth century French literature, or Greek mythology, or LDS history, or political economy, or various theories and modalities of modern psychotherapy, or New Testament textual studies, simply by reading, studying, and digesting the relevant knowledge in that area?

One wouldn't have the credential, and so one wouldn't be a professional in that area, but how would this affect one's having expertise in it?

Does anybody know, by the way, what advanced degrees or academic background Scratch has such that he must frame all his disagreements with me in terms of me being a "hick", a "rube" and generally, a dunce? I've had two years of formal college and twenty five of sustained, informal college (combined with an ever decreasing diet of TV, movies, entertainment in general). I am planning to return to college this year, and work toward an advanced degree in, at the moment, political science, with a minor in western philosophy. This, however, doesn't imply that I couldn't learn the very same stuff on my own. I could, and probably right here in my own study with the personal library I have now. But I'd like the credential for various reasons.


Loran,

I can be your lab rat if you like. I'm getting ready to register for a class in either Comparative Religions or Western Religions and will be doing it online throughout the summer. In nearly (I can't believe this) 7 years of posting online, I've had the opportunity to delve into numerous issues related to religion, done tons of research on my own (books, interviews and online resources) and not just involving Mormonism, believe me.

I'm leaning towards Western Religions. If you like, I can report in here and tell you to what extent my personal research prepared me for the course.

Why not take an online class this summer?

Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Bond...James Bond
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Re: No Intellectual Discipline Without Formal Education.

Post by _Bond...James Bond »

Jersey Girl wrote:I can report in here and tell you to what extent my personal research prepared me for the course.


If Cogs was asking about how personal research helps prepare someone for a class....it can really help. If nothing else the ability to read and absorb material is very important in College.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Loran,

I can be your lab rat if you like. I'm getting ready to register for a class in either Comparative Religions or Western Religions and will be doing it online throughout the summer. In nearly (I can't believe this) 7 years of posting online, I've had the opportunity to delve into numerous issues related to religion, done tons of research on my own (books, interviews and online resources) and not just involving Mormonism, believe me.

I'm leaning towards Western Religions. If you like, I can report in here and tell you to what extent my personal research prepared me for the course.

Why not take an online class this summer?

Jersey Girl



Sounds interesting. Actually, I'm thinking of majoring in the history of the Confederate flag, the Cross Burning and Installation certificate program (a little practical stuff on the side in case I can't get a job at Heritage with my political science degree), and Comparative Redneck Philosophy with a minor in Trailer Park Maintenance.

After Scratch finishes his degree in Queer Theory, we can all get together, get drunk, and watch old reruns of Gomer Pyle.

I can't wait!
_Jersey Girl
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Re: No Intellectual Discipline Without Formal Education.

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Bond...James Bond wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:I can report in here and tell you to what extent my personal research prepared me for the course.


If Cogs was asking about how personal research helps prepare someone for a class....it can really help. If nothing else the ability to read and absorb material is very important in College.


That was part of what he asked in the OP, Bond. In summer, as you may know, classes are compressed. My idea was to take a class not related to my field, something I thought I'd enjoy and benefit from and for which I think I have at least some knowledge base.

Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

I don't mind going out on a limb here.

Scratch

hat was precisely my point, Loran. You are confusing the term "expertise" with "discipline"/"professionalism." Just look at your recent exchange with gknowlton. Now, I could be mistaken, and you guys could have a history that I'm unaware of, but it seemed to me that you leapt right into your belittling comments about his intelligence, moral scruples, etc. That is not a sign of discipline or professionalism---by any measure---and it only reinforces my (and Bond's, apparently) sense that you lack this stuff on account of your never having completed college.


Based on your reading of my postings, assuming you've read some over time, would you say that I lack discipline or professionalism? Why or why not? Be brutally honest.

Jersey Girl
Last edited by Google Feedfetcher on Fri May 25, 2007 2:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

I don't....I figured you would have since you've been around a year or two longer than me. Just that a classroom discussion with a teacher/moderator is something I've found to be more lasting and effective than an unstructured discussion with a pal or two (or discussion on a faceless message board).



Actually, I've known some very smart and well educated individuals during my life, (including some in my immediate family) and I've spent many a night up 'till the wee hours discussing things with them. I've also bounced ideas off of a lot of people on the Web-people with advanced degrees, who both agree and disagree with me for the last 10 years. Structured discussions and unstructured both have there good points, I think.

But in any case, I'm going back to school to provide myself with exactly that.
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

gknowlton
However, I know that people who are insecure and unsure of themselves always have to put down others to make them feel better.


Is this what you attribute to Scratch and Coffee's constant belittling of Loran?

Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Coggins7
Even if Scratch did have a formal degree, its clear to me that he would only use it as a club to beat those with whom he disagrees, just as he uses the fact that I'm living in the South (and nothing wrong with that. This keeps up even thought I've told him a zillion times where I was born and raised and where I've spent most of my life)


I've noticed that done repeatedly. While I do not recall exactly where you were born and raised, I did know that you aren't an SC native. And what if you were? Of what relevance is the location of one's residence? And then there are the repeated "drunk" jokes.

I will say this much, Loran. You had the courage to subject yourself to a public interview on this board, you've answered sensitive questions and disclosed personal information that not many would have. And they use it to beat you with.

Nothing like taking the high road.

Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Coggins7 wrote:
Loran,

I can be your lab rat if you like. I'm getting ready to register for a class in either Comparative Religions or Western Religions and will be doing it online throughout the summer. In nearly (I can't believe this) 7 years of posting online, I've had the opportunity to delve into numerous issues related to religion, done tons of research on my own (books, interviews and online resources) and not just involving Mormonism, believe me.

I'm leaning towards Western Religions. If you like, I can report in here and tell you to what extent my personal research prepared me for the course.

Why not take an online class this summer?

Jersey Girl



Sounds interesting. Actually, I'm thinking of majoring in the history of the Confederate flag, the Cross Burning and Installation certificate program (a little practical stuff on the side in case I can't get a job at Heritage with my political science degree), and Comparative Redneck Philosophy with a minor in Trailer Park Maintenance.

After Scratch finishes his degree in Queer Theory, we can all get together, get drunk, and watch old reruns of Gomer Pyle.

I can't wait!


Save yer Dixie Cups, Bubba. The South shall rise again!

Jersey Girl
;-)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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