A Contradiction?

[_harmony]

It's changed to a degree, most of my experiences were with Seventies. I think the broadcast Stake Conferences is an improvement, used to be you were lucky to have a GA there at all. Now every other Stake Conference you get a broadcast.

Yeah, we're so lucky, we can drive 35 miles to the stake center, then sit on hard chairs, looking at a tv screen. Wow. What will they think of next? Broadcasting our stake conference over BYU TV?

[_The Nehor]

Yeah, we're so lucky, we can drive 35 miles to the stake center, then sit on hard chairs, looking at a tv screen. Wow. What will they think of next? Broadcasting our stake conference over BYU TV?

I hope so that way Stake Conference can become a lie down in my pajamas with popcorn and hot chocolate-type event.

[_harmony]

I hope so that way Stake Conference can become a lie down in my pajamas with popcorn and hot chocolate-type event.

Soon, SM will be broadcast, complete with directions on tearing up dry white bread and getting a drink of water.

We used to know the GA's cared about us, because they visited us in the mission field at least once a year. They spoke to us. They were with us. Now, we know exactly where we stand with them. It feels as caring as any Jimmy Swaggert clone. Send your money, do your duty, clean your church house, and that's about it.

[_The Nehor]

I hope so that way Stake Conference can become a lie down in my pajamas with popcorn and hot chocolate-type event.

Soon, SM will be broadcast, complete with directions on tearing up dry white bread and getting a drink of water.

We used to know the GA's cared about us, because they visited us in the mission field at least once a year. They spoke to us. They were with us. Now, we know exactly where we stand with them. It feels as caring as any Jimmy Swaggert clone. Send your money, do your duty, clean your church house, and that's about it.

We get visited fairly often. Elder Scott came late last year. In my Mission Mission field we got Apostles coming in at least once a year and once Elder Scott called the Mission President out of the blue and said he was passing through and would he mind if he gave a 4 hour seminar to his mission and the local MTC.

I think that is caring. My friend up in Michigan reported that President Hinckley once showed up virtually unannounced and talked for an hour. According to him half of it was stand-up comedy.

I think it's more Church size than anything else which keeps the numbers of these types of visits dropping. Kinda sad but unless we double up on Apostles I don't see a solution.

[_ajax18]

Just a note Ajax: they need not respond to scientists over evolutionary theory because they have never taken an institutional stand on that issue and have always maintained a neutral position on it. Its fairly peripheral to our salvation,

I would agree with you Coggins but I can find a lot of TBMs who think it is against Church doctrine to this day. If the Church were to clealry proclaim to disregard all past statements by Joseph Fielding Smith and simply say it has not been revealed yet than that would fair and doctrinal. But to me it seems they don't even want to do that for fear of alienating people including a few seminary teachers I have that still actively teach, preach, and indoctrinate the youth that evolution and the gospel are mutually exclusive and cannot coexist. Perhaps they think that by not saying anything at all they're keeping more members. This is where it becomes more about PR, pandering to older members stuck in false ideas, and politics than proclaiming the truth, and as I stated before I don't have much respect for that. When they're clearly just feeding us information at General Conference with PR, politics, what the left will think, what mainstream Christianity will think, what value is that to the common member like myself who has to sit through it? I used to go to Church to learn the truth and more about the nature of God, but instead it seems I'm getting a course on how to speak politically correct and win a popularity contest amongst members.

I just can't believe that this is how Church was in the days of Joseph Smith. I would have loved to hear him speak just once, or even just worked along side him even if only for a little bit.

How can you tell me that there is no institutional stand when as late as 2000 it was being preached by BYU religion professors as against the scriptures and probably still is? Why does the Church see no need to correct this doctrine? They correct other false doctrines being preached that need corrected?

[_harmony]

bbbbbbbbbbbb

We get visited fairly often. Elder Scott came late last year. In my Mission Mission field we got Apostles coming in at least once a year and once Elder Scott called the Mission President out of the blue and said he was passing through and would he mind if he gave a 4 hour seminar to his mission and the local MTC.

I think that is caring. My friend up in Michigan reported that President Hinckley once showed up virtually unannounced and talked for an hour. According to him half of it was stand-up comedy.

I think it's more Church size than anything else which keeps the numbers of these types of visits dropping. Kinda sad but unless we double up on Apostles I don't see a solution.

a while ago, we were told we would now have our GA visits via satellite, that they would not be visiting us in person again. And they haven't. Keep in mind we have 6 stakes and a temple in an area that has 200,000 people. That's 40+ units. It's not like we're sparsely populated here. It's not like the chapels and gymnasiums were empty when they came. We had to schedule tiered meetings, in order to get everyone in.

I understand the problems, I'm just saying it's really hard to work up any enthusiasm for a television broadcast. That's why I couldn't care less about general conference. It's just another production, complete with retakes. And there is zero spirit there. When I last saw Pres Hinckley in the late 90's, there was 5000 people in the room, and we were had 3 sessions that day, with 2 stakes in each session. Now THAT was a meeting!

[_ajax18]

a while ago, we were told we would now have our GA visits via satellite, that they would not be visiting us in person again. And they haven't. Keep in mind we have 6 stakes and a temple in an area that has 200,000 people. That's 40+ units. It's not like we're sparsely populated here. It's not like the chapels and gymnasiums were empty when they came. We had to schedule tiered meetings, in order to get everyone in.

I understand the problems, I'm just saying it's really hard to work up any enthusiasm for a television broadcast. That's why I couldn't care less about general conference. It's just another production, complete with retakes. And there is zero spirit there. When I last saw Pres Hinckley in the late 90's, there was 5000 people in the room, and we were had 3 sessions that day, with 2 stakes in each session. Now THAT was a meeting!

I'd tend to agree. I think it's always more meaningful to see them in person. I guess it's like that with any celebrity. Seeing Bruce R. McKonckie speak in person was far different than any satellite broadcast. Isn't that their argument about why they send missionaries, because it's more meaningful in person. I'd give anything to even take a Stake President on some of our reactivation visits to hear the straight talk. Could it be that he would just rather someonelse had to face it?

[_The Nehor]

I'd tend to agree. I think it's always more meaningful to see them in person. I guess it's like that with any celebrity. Seeing Bruce R. McKonckie speak in person was far different than any satellite broadcast. Isn't that their argument about why they send missionaries, because it's more meaningful in person. I'd give anything to even take a Stake President on some of our reactivation visits to hear the straight talk. Could it be that he would just rather someonelse had to face it?

I had a Stake Presidency a few years ago that had a personal goal of visiting every less-active member in the Stake. They were doing pretty well when i moved out.

[_guy sajer]

At some point when you have the slightest glimmer of understanding of what the Church is and why it exists, come to the table.

Seventy percent desertion rate from the Church. Sources please.

www.cumorah.com

There are also national household surveys with religious identification questions in Chile, Mexico, and Brazil, and the number of people self-identifying themselves as Mormon is around 20% of those claimed by the Church on its membership records.

There is also, I believe a religious self-identification survey for the US that show similar, though if I remember correctly, less drastic results. This was done by one of the SUNY schools.

These are all in the archives at www.thefoyer.org, if you care to go source check me. I don't claim to be accurate to the nth percent, but I think I'm in the general ballpark.

[_Runtu]

www.cumorah.com

There are also national household surveys with religious identification questions in Chile, Mexico, and Brazil, and the number of people self-identifying themselves as Mormon is around 20% of those claimed by the Church on its membership records.

There is also, I believe a religious self-identification survey for the US that show similar, though if I remember correctly, less drastic results. This was done by one of the SUNY schools.

These are all in the archives at www.thefoyer.org, if you care to go source check me. I don't claim to be accurate to the nth percent, but I think I'm in the general ballpark.

I'd say 70% is a bit conservative, especially in places like Latin America, where most wards and branches would salivate over 20% activity. In Bolivia, for example, most chapels are virtually empty. A ward in the stake center in La Paz never had more than 25 people attend during the six months I was there. A branch I served in had over 250 members on the membership list, but only 2 members regularly attended.

The areas I was in, and their attendance level:

Ward in La Paz: 25 members at most
Branch in Tarija: 2
Ward in Cochabamba: 60-75
Ward in La Paz: 15-30
Branch in the Beni: 5
Branch in the Beni: 10