guys, it's breath-taking time

[_Blixa]

I confess: Quite uncharacteristically, I just made an ad hominem snipe on another thread.

I am heartily sorry.

Can we get a start-over on that dispensaton?

[_Some Schmo]

I confess: Quite uncharacteristically, I just made an ad hominem snipe on another thread.

I am heartily sorry.

Can we get a start-over on that dispensaton?

Are you referring to what you said to me in the tithing thread? If so, I'm surprised because I thought you meant it as a compliment (I took it that way, anyway, given that I was trying to be logical and facetious simultaneously).

If the ad hominem you're referring to wasn't directed at me, forget I said anything at all; this post never happened.

[_Blixa]

hahah! How could that have been directed at you? I was making a cowardly and anonymous attack on a real person's reputation and livelihood!

I've never seen you make a claim to either : )

(I was refering to the "you're a dupe of Satan" stunner.)

[_Mister Scratch]

How about this, Sethbag? I hereby propose a truce. I will agree to cease calling Loran a hick, rube, Gomer, etc., provided that he agrees to quit hauling out his "you are not intellectually and philosophically serious" stuff, such as he has done with gknowlton and countless other posters. Sound like a good deal, or what?

Are you actually pretending not to understand the difference between calling names and putting others down in a vulgar and uncivil manner and making a principled observation when it needs to be made? Scholars do that all the time Scratch. Calling a spade a spade must be done, but its the way its done that makes the difference.

Are you kidding me here? I hold out my hand, and you stick out your chin, fold your arms across your chest and say, "Harumph!" Do you want me to cull through your posts, and explain to you very carefully and slowly why virtually every single last instance of your knee-jerk, "You are not intellectually and philosophically serious" is wrong-headed?

Not being intellectually serious is descriptive of a demonstratable lack of philosophical substance or lucidity.

You know Loran, at least I tried. Here you are apparently still trying to hold onto the last little vestige of rhetoric that you've got. Do you not remember when I asked you to define "intellectually serious"? You could not, or at any rate did not, do it. Here is another question: what is it that you think gives you the right---let alone the ability---to evaluate another person's "intellectual seriousness"?

Being a hick or being called Gomer is nothing but an adolescent cut down intended to derail the conversation and make you feel superior when your losing an argument.

No, it is no different in substance, Loran, and the fact that you have such difficultly realizing this suggests that, in fact, it is *you* who is lacking in "intellectual and philosophical seriousness."

I'm trying hard to get away from the ad hominems, but I'm not going to cease pointing out intellectual sloppiness or lack of substance when I see it.

Again, I ask you: what gives you the right, or makes you think you have the ability, to evaluate or criticize "intellectual sloppiness"? Especially given the fact that that is your blanket dismissal term (along with "this is typically leftist") for everything? Moreover, Loran, I am glad that you mentioned ad hominem attack, since, given your own "intellectual seriousness," you no doubt know that your cries about "intellectual and philosophical seriousness" would probably be less grating if they were directed at arguments rather than persons.

Let me say it again, nice and clearly for you: Neither I nor any other person here appreciates being labeled "intellectually and philosophically adolescent" by you anymore than you enjoy being called a "hick Gomer Pyle". (And let's face it, the two phrases mean exactly the same thing---one is merely more vivid and illustrative than the other.) And, unlike you, I can actually and legitimately point to "other folks" who are nodding along with what I am saying. You say that posting on this forum "wears on you" after a while. Perhaps this is a means of fixing that.

[_Some Schmo]

hahah! How could that have been directed at you? I was making a cowardly and anonymous attack on a real person's reputation and livelihood!

I've never seen you make a claim to either : )

(I was refering to the "you're a dupe of Satan" stunner.)

Well, given your regular even-minded and reasonable posts, I think you can easily be granted a pass.

[_Coggins7]

Are you kidding me here? I hold out my hand, and you stick out your chin, fold your arms across your chest and say, "Harumph!" Do you want me to cull through your posts, and explain to you very carefully and slowly why virtually every single last instance of your knee-jerk, "You are not intellectually and philosophically serious" is wrong-headed?

If you really believe I'm going to fall your this, you've got a longer way to go than I suspected.

You know Loran, at least I tried. Here you are apparently still trying to hold onto the last little vestige of rhetoric that you've got. Do you not remember when I asked you to define "intellectually serious"? You could not, or at any rate did not, do it. Here is another question: what is it that you think gives you the right---let alone the ability---to evaluate another person's "intellectual seriousness"?

Move along...nothing to see here...

Quote:
Being a hick or being called Gomer is nothing but an adolescent cut down intended to derail the conversation and make you feel superior when your losing an argument.

Again, I ask you: what gives you the right, or makes you think you have the ability, to evaluate or criticize "intellectual sloppiness"?

I reserve that right unto myself based upon what I believe to be my quite clear and long cultivated ability to discern just that. When I see a glimmer of a rational argument from you that I do not, we can have a discussion.

Let me say it again, nice and clearly for you: Neither I nor any other person here appreciates being labeled "intellectually and philosophically adolescent"

Pointing out what I discern to be sloppy, simplistic, incoherent, and immature thinking is, to my mind, a far cry from calling you a commie, a fascist, a bigot, or a disgusting little worm, all of which I have called you and all of which I am trying to avoid in these kinds of forums from now on. pointing out and criticizing the poor quality of arguments or thought processes is incumbent upon any serious intellectual dealing with serious questions. Insults and personal slurs irrelevant to that task or the substance of the argument are not.

All you want Scratch, is a double standard by which you get to call me names but I don't get to fire back. No go.

[Guest]

But still.

Frankly, I like the openness of this forum. Virtually nothing is off-limits. I think that's probably good. But, goodness.

There is so much personal static on this MB that one has to basically skim through the threads to read something of substance.

OPINION: Mostly (at least in the mid-level forum), it seems, one finds individually-targeted sniping. Perhaps Sethbag and I are the only ones that this bothers. But surely not. Some of the TBMs here would last (one hopes) no longer on MADB than some of the "anti-Mormons" represented here. Say what one wants to about MADB moderational tendencies: but the quite open, and, frankly, commendable, moderational model here seems to bring out the worst on both sides, in certain instances. I could be wrong, admittedly.

But, what if the laudable openness here led to more open dialog, even as it embraced topics too sensitive for other LDS boards, while, at the same time, fostering a mutual respect for diametrically-opposed forum participants?

That would be pretty cool.

Best.

CKS

[_CaliforniaKid]

That would be cool. But somehow I think you're being naïvely idealistic.

[_cksalmon]

That would be cool. But somehow I think you're being naïvely idealistic.

Well, I'd like to think that folks are capable of better than I'm willing to admit of them. That doesn't make me wrong, it just makes me idealistic. Oh, wait: that's exactly what you said, wasn't it?

CKS

[_Blixa]

I don't mind the occasional snipe, its the long, never ending, back and forth, same-point-over-and-over marathons that suck the life right out of the room. Once a thread goes that way, its all over apparently.