No Intellectual Discipline Without Formal Education.

[_dartagnan]

I reiterate. You have no degrees. You have no credentials. I have never seen evidence of them.

Plutarch/rcrocket wants to over exagerrate the extent to which he can use Scratch's anonymity to his advantage. When someone is anonymous, that means you know nothing about them. It doesn't give you license to assume all sorts of tripe and declare it valid unless the person tells you his name.

Why don't you just come clean and admit you do not know if he has any degrees?

Too much of a coward?

Too much pride?

Too stupid?

Too busy bragging about your successful adventures as an attorney?

You're not even smart enough to avoid a common fallacy. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. This is essentially what your argument boils down to. Since Scratch doesn't produce his degrees, then they must not exist. Gee, I can think of several anti-Mormons who would be lambasted for using that kind of logic against the Church, Joseph Smith and about a hundred other apologetic issues.

[_rcrocket]

I reiterate. You have no degrees. You have no credentials. I have never seen evidence of them.

Plutarch/rcrocket wants to over exagerrate the extent to which he can use Scratch's anonymity to his advantage. When someone is anonymous, that means you know nothing about them. It doesn't give you license to assume all sorts of tripe and declare it valid unless the person tells you his name.

Why don't you just come clean and admit you do not know if he has any degrees?

Too much of a coward?

Too much pride?

Too stupid?

Too busy bragging about your successful adventures as an attorney?

You're not even smart enough to avoid a common fallacy. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. This is essentially what your argument boils down to. Since Scratch doesn't produce his degrees, then they must not exist. Gee, I can think of several anti-Mormons who would be lambasted for using that kind of logic against the Church, Joseph Smith and about a hundred other apologetic issues.

In answer to your questions, in order: (1) He has no degrees. (2) Incomplete question, but I try not to be a coward. (3) I try not to be proud. (4) Stupid I am often. (5) I am stupid when I brag, so no more bragging. You got me there.

Again, I'm sorry to have said something to have offended you.

rcrocket

[_Jersey Girl]

Roger

Jersey Gal, I'm with Ya! Demeaning and belittling in any way is what should be MODERATED, not the use of so called swear-words/profanity... This is not the @*$f&%F*##### Victorian era! ;-) Warm regards, Roger

Damn straight, Roger. If I have to continually wade through off hand remarks about someone's alcoholism, level of education, and watching certain people be set up over and over again and then mocked because they either respond in kind or choose to disengage, they can wade through what I post. These are allegedly educated people. If that is so they can use their superior intellect to debate points, instead they throw personal s*** at people. It takes no brains at all to throw s*** at someone. How well I know! According to the latest weather report we're in for some foul weather, I hear it'll be raining f-bombs all over this board before dawn.

Your last statment, "This is not the @*$f&%F*##### Victorian era! ;-)" is just a tad bit confusing. Did you mean to say "This is not the f****** Victorian era"?

Happy editing!

Jersey Girl

[MODERATOR NOTE: No, it is not happy editing. I'd rather not have to do it. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.]

[_Jersey Girl]

Loran,

I agree with what Roger had to say:

Loran, "Go for it, Bro!" Every thing to gain--nothing to lose. What you 'have' will simply be added to... Thereby your 'past'--'bad-or-good'--can possitively effect your future making You a more effective person with understanding gained in the pursuit/attainment of 'higher-education' to be shared...

You stand only to benefit from continuing your education. Whether you choose to take a class simply for the pleasure of it or seek to increase your knowledge of a particular subject, you should go for it.

In summer, I often take online classes. They aren't difficult to keep up with, lectures are presented in units, assignments are sent via an online mailbox system, class discussions are conducted on message boards just like this one and you have email contact with your instructor. Online classes are a bit more pricey than those in taken in the classroom, but they afford you the convenience of working at home and somewhat at your own pace.

I find that field related classes online are a breeze for me to do, likewise anything having to do with preparing papers. For other classes where I need hands on support, such as math classes, I would choose to do those in a classroom where I can get immediate support from an instructor. It's good to know where your strengths and weak areas are.

Since my post where I mentioned wanting to take a religions class, I have been given a special 2 week assignment at work which in all good conscience I cannot refurse. I'm still going to register for the Western Religions online class. I'll report in here to say whether or not my incidental learning on boards like this over the years, has given me a good base from which to work in the class material.

You are not too old to learn, as one poster implied. You will take into your course work, life experiences and a determination to learn. My observation has been that older students are among the most active students in class and are there to get their money's worth out of a course.

Good luck!

Jersey Girl

[_Jason Bourne]

You cannot possibly even understand the concept of "intellectual discipline," since you do not hold a college degree.

This was meant by Scratch to be, of course, another slur against my intelleigence and background, but that's not why I'm starting a new thread regarding it.

I'm just wondering what others here thinking of this concept; the concept of credentialism which says that if one has not been to college or university, one cannot have a deep, advanced, or substantive knowledge of anything and should be ignored out of hand. Now obviously, some things, like the natural and hard sciences, medicine, and practical matters such as the construction trades, require hands on experience, field work, and laboratory work. But why, for example, could one not be an expert on seventeenth century French literature, or Greek mythology, or LDS history, or political economy, or various theories and modalities of modern psychotherapy, or New Testament textual studies, simply by reading, studying, and digesting the relevant knowledge in that area?

One wouldn't have the credential, and so one wouldn't be a professional in that area, but how would this affect one's having expertise in it?

Does anybody know, by the way, what advanced degrees or academic background Scratch has such that he must frame all his disagreements with me in terms of me being a "hick", a "rube" and generally, a dunce? I've had two years of formal college and twenty five of sustained, informal college (combined with an ever decreasing diet of TV, movies, entertainment in general). I am planning to return to college this year, and work toward an advanced degree in, at the moment, political science, with a minor in western philosophy. This, however, doesn't imply that I couldn't learn the very same stuff on my own. I could, and probably right here in my own study with the personal library I have now. But I'd like the credential for various reasons.

Certainly one can be well read and educate themselves on a variety of topics without having a degree. The argument that one cannot is specious at best. I always teach my kids that if you can read you can learn anything. Sure one needs a degree to be certaint things and meet certain requirements of say being a doctor, lawyer, CPA, professor or so one. But yes, you can be smart about things without a degree.

[_twinkie]

My husband says some people are educated beyond their intelligence.

[_Jersey Girl]

Certainly one can be well read and educate themselves on a variety of topics without having a degree. The argument that one cannot is specious at best. I always teach my kids that if you can read you can learn anything. Sure one needs a degree to be certaint things and meet certain requirements of say being a doctor, lawyer, CPA, professor or so one. But yes, you can be smart about things without a degree.

I totally agree with what you tell your kids about reading. How smart is it to tell someone they need to further their education and when they say that's their plan, tell them they aren't able to learn?

Hullo?

Jersey Girl

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Jersey Gal! You said:

Your last statment, "This is not the @*$f&%F*##### Victorian era! ;-)" is just a tad bit confusing. Did you mean to say "This is not the f****** Victorian era"?

Happy editing!

Jersey Girl

Yeah. Thanks for spelling it out for me...LOL!! Great stuff that you're into 'on-line' courses!! I've thought of doing some, but haven't taken the step.

I love learning, a lot of personal study that has paid off in many ways. Yet as Bond suggested way-back, class/group exchanges are more challenging. I can really get into head-to-head stuff...

Went back to finish a degree at 45. Took my wife, one pre-school, one who started Grade One in Hawaii, and a 20 year old who attended with me. Lived on the beach, worked on Campus and made Dean's Honour Role... A great year!!

Twinkie, you said:

My husband says some people are educated beyond their intelligence.

And, beyond their EQ... That's why they still act childish, defensive, fearful, repressive, mean-spirited, etc. etc. etc. in their little world of Paper Plaques and self-insufficeincy. Seems little helps them up, except their ability to put someone else down.

Education is key to science; science is key to understanding "God"; understanding "God" is key to the Universe; understanding the Universe is key to enjoying life in all of its fullness--line upon line, discovery upon discovery. Then we'll all live in a unity of faith--in each other... Warm regards, Roger

[_Jersey Girl]

Roger

Yeah. Thanks for spelling it out for me...LOL!! Great stuff that you're into 'on-line' courses!! I've thought of doing some, but haven't taken the step.

I love learning, a lot of personal study that has paid off in many ways. Yet as Bond suggested way-back, class/group exchanges are more challenging. I can really get into head-to-head stuff...

Went back to finish a degree at 45. Took my wife, one pre-school, one who started Grade One in Hawaii, and a 20 year old who attended with me. Lived on the beach, worked on Campus and made Dean's Honour Role... A great year!!

Yeah, sorry about the spelling it out, but I think you knew where I was coming from. In the online classes, exchanges are done via a message board format ;-) and you can do 'em in your jammies!

I could so dig living on the beach and going to school! What a great experience!

Jersey Girl

[_Coggins7]

Yes, you do, as implicit in your repeated chant of, "you are not intellectually and philosophically serious."

No Scratch, this is only reserved for a select few for whom this fits the bill.