The Trinity

[_The Nehor]

Maggie, I would recommend Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis if you can find it. It has an excellent, non-denominational explanation of the Trinity (best I've read anyways).

It helped me to understand where Trinitarian Christians were coming from....and the Book of Mormon does say they are one. One in purpose is a nice explanation but there is something else going on there, a mystery I have barely begun to crack.

[_Mercury]

...but there is something else going on there, a mystery I have barely begun to crack.

Also see the mystery of trying to think of a word that rhymes with orange or the following thought experiment:

"Can God create a rock big enough that he cannot lift it?"

[_Gazelam]

I've been wrestling with accepting the Trinity lately. I think part of me doesn't want to accept it as a last hold out to hang onto the church (yes I know I'm confusing.. :P ) but are there any websites or books or anything that deal with the basic traditional trinity teachings that you would recommend?

Have any of you gone through this?

What is at question here is the roles of the Father and the Son.

The Father is the Father of the spirits of all men, includeing Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 12:9; Numbers 16:22) and is thus the ultimate object of our worship. The Father is the Father because he gave us all life or rather provided a spiritual birth for each of us.

Jesus Christ is Father by virtue of his role as Creator. "While yet in the premortal existence jehovah advanced and progressed until he became like unto God. Under the direction of the Father he became the Creator of worlds without number, and thus was himself Lord Omnipotent." (Bruce R. McConkie, "The Mystery of Godliness," p.52)

Speaking to Moses God said:
31......For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.
32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.
(Moses 1:31-33; compare Hebrews 1:1-3)

When Christ arrived to the Nephites he announced himself this way:
15 Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name. (3 Nephi 9:15)


Christ is also the Father through spiritual rebirth. Those who reject the Fall and shake off their fallen and carnal nature, and accept a state of righteousness through strength of will and acceptance of the gospel become the adopted sons and daughters of Christ by adoption.

"That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory"; (Moses 6:59)

Jesus Christ becomes the Covenant Father of all who accept him and live the terms and conditions of the new and everlasting covenant. (D&C 66:2, 133:57)


Quote:
As it was with the physical formation of the heavens and the earth, so it is in regard to the human character and personality: Christ is the Father of creation, and through applying his atoneing blood men and women become "new creations," new creatures of Christ through the medium of the Holy Ghost (see Mosiah 5:1-7; 15:11-12; 27:25-26). (Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon vol.2. p.227, Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet



Christ is also Father by Divine Investiture of Authority. Christ explained when he was upon the Earth that "I am come in my Fathers name" (John 5:43). He acted and spoke on behalf of his Father. He proclaimed "my Doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me" (John 7:16) Christ is therefore known as Father "by divine investiture of authority the Father has placed his name upon the Son, has given him his own power and authority, and has authorized him to speak in the first person as though he were the original or primal Father" (Promised Messiah, p.63)

President Joseph Fielding Smith helps us understand this:

Quote:
All revelation since the Fall has come through Jesus Christ, who is the Jehovah of the Old Testament. In all of the scriptures, where God is mentioned and where he has appeared, it was Jehovah.... The Father has never dealt with man directly and personally since the Fall, and he has never appeared except to introduce and bear record of the Son." (Doctrines of Salvation 1:27)


There are great examples of this found in the Doctrine and Covenants, occasions when the Lord chooses to speak as both the Father and the Son.

D&C 29:1
"Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your Redeemer, the Great I Am, whose arm of mercy hath atoned for your sins;"

Later in vs 42 though
"But, behold, I say unto you that I, the Lord God, gave unto Adam and unto his seed, that they should not die as to the temporal death, until I, the Lord God, should send forth angels to declare unto them repentance and redemption, through faith on the name of mine Only Begotten Son."


In section 49 we see this in reverse
"5 Thus saith the Lord; for I am God, and have sent mine Only Begotten Son into the world for the redemption of the world, and have decreed that he that receiveth him shall be saved, and he that receiveth him not shall be damned—"

and later
" 28 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, and I come quickly. Even so. Amen."

In this dramatic way God illustrates the unity of the Godhead. These two have the same mind and thoughts and are perfectly united.

Bruce R. McConkie states

Quote:
How is the Lord our Father? It is because of the atonement, because he received power from his Father to do that which is infinate and eternal. This is a matter of his Eternal Parent investing him with power from on high so that he becomes the Father because he exercises the power of the Eternal Being" (Promised Messiah, p.371)


Gaz

[_Calculus Crusader]

The doctrine of the trinity is pure flatulence.

[_Jason Bourne]

I've been wrestling with accepting the Trinity lately.

Did you pin them!!!! It would be tough with three of them, not wait, one of them... well three of them that are one of them...and one of them has body, but the other two don't but there is not two others only one...well there are three personages but there is really only one God but all three can be called God... and well.... I bet you lost!!!!

[_Jason Bourne]

The doctrine of the trinity is pure flatulence.

IT IS!!! IT IS A BG FART!!

Wow!! All these Christian teachers taught and teach a BIG FART!!!!! But it is a pure fart.

[_Bond...James Bond]

The doctrine of the trinity is pure flatulence.

IT IS!!! IT IS A BG FART!!

Wow!! All these Christian teachers taught and teach a BIG FART!!!!! But it is a pure fart.

I always wondered what the Holy Ghost sounded like....;)

[_The Nehor]

...but there is something else going on there, a mystery I have barely begun to crack.

Also see the mystery of trying to think of a word that rhymes with orange or the following thought experiment:

"Can God create a rock big enough that he cannot lift it?"

Or the Homer Simpson one: "Can God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he can eat it?"

The correct response is that omnipotence is able to do anything that is not intrinsically impossible (i.e. that you can make nonsense into sense by adding God to it).

[_TrashcanMan79]

I've been wrestling with accepting the Trinity lately. I think part of me doesn't want to accept it as a last hold out to hang onto the church (yes I know I'm confusing.. :P ) but are there any websites or books or anything that deal with the basic traditional trinity teachings that you would recommend?

Have any of you gone through this?

Out of curiosity, why do you equate your resistance to the doctrine of the Trinity with "hanging onto" the LDS church? There are non-LDS Christians who reject the Trinity for being the man-made horse crap that it is. Maybe you should consider those versions of Christianity. I'll try to find you some links.

[_moksha]

I always wondered what the Holy Ghost sounded like....;)

The sound is from the same process that created the Burning in the Bosom sensation. Hopefully the sulfur content is low.