The Validity of First Hand Accounts

[_Some Schmo]

I hope your on medication because that statement seems so useless that its counterproductive.

I think the correct word is "you're" not "your." "Your" is a possessive word; "you're" is a contraction for "you are." Your usage would have been appropriate had you coupled your "your" with "your Highness" or "your Eminence," but you didn't.

rcrocket

Correcting his grammer does not correct his point. His point still stands.

Ahh... it's an old trick on message boards, trying to distract people from the fact that they don't know what they're talking about by becoming pedantic about a person's grammar. It might as well be a variation on Godwin's law: sorry dude, you just lost the argument by default.

[_rcrocket]

Never heard of Godwin's law.

I am unaware that Joseph Smith ever committed perjury. When did he do that? I have my Quinn books ready.

rcrocket

[_Mercury]

Never heard of Godwin's law.

I am unaware that Joseph Smith ever committed perjury. When did he do that? I have my Quinn books ready.

rcrocket

Considering that Joe was convicted of bank fraud, glass looking and other sundry confidence games its a fair bet that he would have perjured himself if the justified vigilantes didn't finish the pedophile off when they had the chance

[_rcrocket]

Never heard of Godwin's law.

I am unaware that Joseph Smith ever committed perjury. When did he do that? I have my Quinn books ready.

rcrocket

Considering that Joe was convicted of bank fraud, glass looking and other sundry confidence games its a fair bet that he would have perjured himself if the justified vigilantes didn't finish the pedophile off when they had the chance

Never went to trial for bank fraud.

The "glass looking" incident, in my reasoned opinion, was an arraignment. The reason I get there is that the court record referred to affidavits. Affidavits are permitted in arraignments, not trials. Joseph Smith did not testify at that proceeding, whatever it was. In any event, it did not culminate in a conviction; otherwise county records would have revealed on the county index the fact of the conviction.

"Other sundry confidence games" I am not aware of any conviction or trial involving Joseph's testimony.

But, I still have my Quinn books ready where such information would likely be found. What specific trial did Joseph Smith commit perjury in? Can you name one?

rcrocket

[_Mercury]

Never heard of Godwin's law.

I am unaware that Joseph Smith ever committed perjury. When did he do that? I have my Quinn books ready.

rcrocket

Considering that Joe was convicted of bank fraud, glass looking and other sundry confidence games its a fair bet that he would have perjured himself if the justified vigilantes didn't finish the pedophile off when they had the chance

Never went to trial for bank fraud.

The "glass looking" incident, in my reasoned opinion, was an arraignment. The reason I get there is that the court record referred to affidavits. Affidavits are permitted in arraignments, not trials. Joseph Smith did not testify at that proceeding, whatever it was. In any event, it did not culminate in a conviction; otherwise county records would have revealed on the county index the fact of the conviction.

"Other sundry confidence games" I am not aware of any conviction or trial involving Joseph's testimony.

But, I still have my Quinn books ready where such information would likely be found. What specific trial did Joseph Smith commit perjury in? Can you name one?

rcrocket

Ya know, he was never convicted of Bigamy but we all know what he did. within your irrational brain im sure that you write off his crimes because he skipped town and was never convicted. I guess it just shows how bad of a lawyer you are.

So how did you pass the LSAT anyway?

Whats funny is that the court records for the glass looking case were found molding away in a box that was going to be destroyed and they showed that he was convicted of fraud. Hmm, so much for character.

[_Some Schmo]

Never heard of Godwin's law.

I am unaware that Joseph Smith ever committed perjury. When did he do that? I have my Quinn books ready.

rcrocket

Let me explain so that even you can understand. I'll spell it out for you step by step... mmm'k?

You said, "I don't think there are very many people who give a whole lot of credit to the circumstantial evidence, but millions who credit Brother Joseph's testimony."

I response to this, I was playing up your use of the word "testimony" in the "court of law" sense of the word and called it a perjury, thinking that because you claim to be a lawyer, you might understand that.

Now you've come back apparently not understanding my comment, and want a documented case of him committing perjury.

I'm not going to call you any names, but the word "dumbass" certainly springs to mind when I read your posts.

If one is looking for a case of him lying (I thought I better be more specific for the attention-span impaired), read just about anything he ever wrote. Start with his supposed "revelations" for a wealth of examples.

[_rcrocket]

Ya know, he was never convicted of Bigamy but we all know what he did. within your irrational brain I'm sure that you write off his crimes because he skipped town and was never convicted. I guess it just shows how bad of a lawyer you are.

So how did you pass the LSAT anyway?

Whats funny is that the court records for the glass looking case were found molding away in a box that was going to be destroyed and they showed that he was convicted of fraud. Hmm, so much for character.

Let's see. The fact that he was never convicted of bigamy is evidence that he WOULD have been convicted of bank fraud and glass looking. OK. Got it.

One does not "pass" the LSAT. One gets a score and with that score takes it to the law schools.

Joseph Smith was never convicted of glass looking. What do you mean, "he skipped town?" Being granted "leg bail" isn't the same thing, and he was always around to be arrested again. I think what happened is that the complainant had second thoughts and gave up because his uncle, the purported victim, wasn't complaining. [I'll have to check my detailed notes on all this; it has been a while; not sure of the details here.]

Also keep in mind that the court records are of suspicious provenance. I think about such things and they have weight in my analysis. They were stolen from the courthouse by an anti-Mormon. That means they cannot be relied upon, any further, as conclusive evidence of official proceedings. Who knows what was removed?

rcrocket

[_rcrocket]

Now you've come back apparently not understanding my comment, and want a documented case of him committing perjury.

I'm not going to call you any names, but the word "dumbass" certainly springs to mind when I read your posts.

This dumbass is still waiting. I think you are being unfair to all those innocent donkeys out there who probably don't like being associated with stupidity.

Since court records are easily obtained (as opposed to many other kinds of documents) it should be fairly easy to establish your claim -- particularly since Quinn dealt with all this.

rcrocket

[_Some Schmo]

This dumbass is still waiting. I think you are being unfair to all those innocent donkeys out there who probably don't like being associated with stupidity.

Since court records are easily obtained (as opposed to many other kinds of documents) it should be fairly easy to establish your claim -- particularly since Quinn dealt with all this.

rcrocket

I see in another post and this one that you admit to being intellectually challenged. That's fine, then. I shall harass you no further.

Let me be as obvious and succinct as possible: Joe Smith's testimony (in the sense that you used it) is a fabrication, despite millions believing it. I don't know that he was ever in court, and quite frankly, I don't care. I just happen to strongly believe, based on a massive amount of evidence and common sense, that he was full of crap.

I can not make it any clearer than that.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Never went to trial for bank fraud.

According to Quinn, on October 24, 1837, "[a]n appeals court confirms the conviction and $1,000 fine each of Smith and Rigdon for operating an illegal bank." Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, p. 627.

At the time of his death, Joseph Smith was under indictment for perjury by the Grand Jury of Hancock County (trial scheduled for October 1844, but never held due to his murder in June).