The Real Reason I Left

[_The Nehor]

I honestly suspect SWK was a closet homosexual. Between this quote and the thing about masturbation leading to mutual masturbation and homosexuality just strikes me as so out there and off the wall that the only explanation I can think of was that he was aroused by other men. I've heard of studies where men who were the most outspoken against homosexuality were the ones who responded most to homoerotic materials. I mean... look a Ted Haggard.

Just a hunch.

Kind of sad, really. The guy probably should have just taken one up the rear and got it out of his system (the repressed feelings, that is) rather than writing this crap and passing it off as prophetic teachings. Imagine how much heartache it would have saved.

I'm saying this as a friend: GET HELP!!!!!!!

[_wenglund]

Just don't expect everybody to define "sexual infraction" the way the church does. Sex isn't a sin, but unfaithfulness may be. The church only knows how to make sex the focus of everything and let more subtle moral issues go unaddressed.

I came of age during the so-called sexual revolution, so I would hardly expect everyone to accept the Church's definition of "sexual infraction".

In fact, I am quite aware of how scores of people, perhaps somewhat like you, who removed a number of sexual behaviors from the "sin" ledger, and thereby "gifted" our society with the ponderous legacy of increased teen pregnancies, pornography, adultry, abortions, divorce, aids and STD epidemics, etc.

And, ironically, while much of the culture at that time seemed obsessed with sex, the Church was confronting a broad range of moral and health issues--not the least of which had to do with growing problems with drugs, tobacco, and alcohol.

I personally don't see the Church focusing much more on sex now than they did then, though they have been making a concerted effort to minimize, among their members, the huge fall-out in society of the sexual revolution.

Actually, I also stood close in Kimball's presence. I cried when I heard of his death. But I would never, ever make excuses or try to rationalize away his teachings on this subject. What's wrong is wrong, and your excuses and rationalizations on his account damage the veneer of integrity you are trying so hard to maintain here.

Gratefully, I don't look to you as an authoritative, let alone correct, judge of his teaching or my perception regarding the same, and I am not the least bit concerned that my integrity is in question by someone whose integrity or credibility I have yet to deem more than dubious.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_harmony]

As far as prophets go, Pres Kimball was about average. The three of his teachings that most glaringly show his fallibility are:

1. Native Americans skin getting lighter, if they join the church.
2. All of his sexual sin teachings.
3. His teaching on rape.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

[_wenglund]

As far as prophets go, Pres Kimball was about average. The three of his teachings that most glaringly show his fallibility are:

1. Native Americans skin getting lighter, if they join the church.
2. All of his sexual sin teachings.
3. His teaching on rape.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

I suppose that if you wish to wax judgemental here, then it may be appropose for me to say that even the way-below-average critics/members, such as yourself, have a right to their opinion--even if they are proverbally wrong.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

In fact, I am quite aware of how scores of people, perhaps somewhat like you, who removed a number of sexual behaviors from the "sin" ledger, and thereby "gifted" our society with the ponderous legacy of increased teen pregnancies, pornography, adultry, abortions, divorce, aids and STD epidemics, etc.

Those problems may just be the price we have to pay in order to eventually get sex back into its rightful place in society, a part of life, not a grand taboo and not a free-for-all.

And, ironically, while much of the culture at that time seemed obsessed with sex, the Church was confronting a broad range of moral and health issues--not the least of which had to do with growing problems with drugs, tobacco, and alcohol.

Um-hmm, as always, dealing with the symptoms and not the cause.

[_harmony]

I suppose that if you wish to wax judgemental here, then it may be appropose for me to say that even the way-below-average critics/members, such as yourself, have a right to their opinion--even if they are proverbally wrong.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

You wouldn't know a way-below-average member if she was sitting across from you in the temple, Wade. Keep that in mind the next time you go.

[_wenglund]

You wouldn't know a way-below-average member if she was sitting across from you in the temple, Wade. Keep that in mind the next time you go.

Actually, it wouldn't become an issue unless she hypocritically waxed judgemental of prophets, leaders, and members while in the temple. Think about that the next time you post.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

In fact, I am quite aware of how scores of people, perhaps somewhat like you, who removed a number of sexual behaviors from the "sin" ledger, and thereby "gifted" our society with the ponderous legacy of increased teen pregnancies, pornography, adultry, abortions, divorce, aids and STD epidemics, etc.

Those problems may just be the price we have to pay in order to eventually get sex back into its rightful place in society, a part of life, not a grand taboo and not a free-for-all.

That is certainly what we were told by the prophets and teachers of the "sexual revolution". Yet, here it is several decades later, after sex was supposedly put in its "rightful place", and society continues to be burdened with ever increasing problems. One would think at some point people would figure out that the "rightful place" for sex was where it had long been thought to be (prior to the deluge of problem), within the loving and committed and sacred bonds of holy matrimony.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_harmony]

You wouldn't know a way-below-average member if she was sitting across from you in the temple, Wade. Keep that in mind the next time you go.

Actually, it wouldn't become an issue unless she hypocritically waxed judgemental of prophets, leaders, and members while in the temple. Think about that the next time you post.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

We are required to judge our leaders, Wade, to question and critique. Otherwise we would be unprofitable servants, and Lord knows God has more than enough of those. I would be hypocritical, like so many of our TBM members, were I to allow our leaders a free pass, just because they're our leaders.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

That is certainly what we were told by the prophets and teachers of the "sexual revolution". Yet, here it is several decades later, after sex was supposedly put in its "rightful place", and society continues to be burdened with ever increasing problems. One would think at some point people would figure out that the "rightful place" for sex was where it had long been thought to be (prior to the deluge of problem), within the loving and committed and sacred bonds of holy matrimony.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

You live in your own little Wade-World.