Why We Need Religion

[_Tommy]

The answer to the question is simple my dear brothers and sisters. Take away the gospel and civilization will collapse, we will become a loathsome and blood-thirsty people like unto the Lamanites of old. But most importantly we need the restored gospel for the ordinances which bring about salvation in the eternities.

[_The Nehor]

The answer to the question is simple my dear brothers and sisters. Take away the gospel and civilization will collapse, we will become a loathsome and blood-thirsty people like unto the Lamanites of old. But most importantly we need the restored gospel for the ordinances which bring about salvation in the eternities.

Tommy, that's a bit of a jump. We do believe the Gospel was taken away and did all the civilizations become loathsome and blood-thirsty? In fact I recall the Book of Mormon ascribing the evils of both sides in the last war to having once had the Gospel and denying it completely. In that sense, LDS church members may be the most dangerous people alive. Of course if this is true God definitely thinks it is worth the chance.

[_Roger Morrison]

Yeah, Moksha's good. It isn't the label one wears, or flaunts, it's their behaviour in everyday situations that counts in the Universe--life, theirs & others'. There are crazies in all camps that discredit the sane in their midst.

IMSCO, character & the consequence of that disposition, has little to do with being Theist or Atheist. It has to do with respect of others as of one's self, and reverence for all life. No one can escape the truths of the Mount Sermon. Whether the mythology (miracles) are taken to heart is irrelevant... The Two New Commandnments, whatever one's understanding of the word, "God", have as yet really not been put to the test... Warm regards, Roger

[_SatanWasSetUp]

And mine is quite different. The Founding Fathers of the USA did not envision a secularized nation as many atheists like to romance about.

There have been many loopy religious dictators but most of the bad ones were really just opportunists who used religion as a political weapon since it captured the hearts and minds of the people. Nobody really believes Constantine, for example, was really a converted Christian. He made Christianity the state religion to serve his own ambitions, and it worked beautifully for him. The religious authorities – in Christianity anyway - did not wage wars and were often the only source of opposition to the numerous immoral acts throughout history. To put the blame all on religion is premature to say the least; especially when the relatively recent age of atheism cannot produce any notable dictators who were considered morale or just. In fact, if you take the number of religious dictators through time and figure how many were immoral, and then take that percentage and compare it to the number of immoral atheist dictators from the past few centuries, one could argue that there really is something about religion that would restrain the innate lust for wealth and power.

Joseph Stalin was a die-hard atheist and a fan of Darwin. He was also personally responsible for the deaths of anywhere between 30 and 60 million people - in the largest secularized nation the world has ever seen. Only when religion was permitted into Russia do we see them becoming pluralistic, less racist and less of a threat to the world. Adolf Hitler went to Catholic school as a child, but not unlike other wise and noble freethinkers, he rejected the Church outright. Just think if he had grown into an active Christian. He might have mutilated his own people after sacrificing their offspring. And of course Mao Tse-tung is another ornament to the morality tree of atheism.

If notable atheist Roy Hattersley can admit the possibility that theists such as those in the Salvation Army and the Little Sisters of the Poor, possess moral imperatives that may make them morally superior to atheists, then I think that says something. Name me some notable moral accomplishments by atheist movements. Slavery ended because of movements comprised mostly of fanatic Christians.

Agreed that you don't need religion to do really bad things, but religion is not necessary for morality either, which is the point of this thread. Atheists who simply replace religion with another form of worship and idolatry fall into the same problem that has plagued so many religions. Communism is an easy atheist target for theists, but communists simply replaced the church with a political party. The problem isn't so much religion/atheism, it's idolatry. Idolizing authority figures to the point of blind obedience leads to immorality. This is prevelant in religion, but it exists in other movements as well, particularly political movements. JMO.

[_Blixa]

The answer to the question is simple my dear brothers and sisters. Take away the gospel and civilization will collapse, we will become a loathsome and blood-thirsty people like unto the Lamanites of old. But most importantly we need the restored gospel for the ordinances which bring about salvation in the eternities.

Would we also get more tan if such a thing would happen?

If so then whole sectors of the economy based on self- and sunless tanning agents and bronzers, not to mention tanning salons and the manufacturing of tanning beds and tanning lamps would collapse. Boy, I can sure see why this would be a bad thing!

[_The Nehor]

The answer to the question is simple my dear brothers and sisters. Take away the gospel and civilization will collapse, we will become a loathsome and blood-thirsty people like unto the Lamanites of old. But most importantly we need the restored gospel for the ordinances which bring about salvation in the eternities.

Would we also get more tan if such a thing would happen?

If so then whole sectors of the economy based on self- and sunless tanning agents and bronzers, not to mention tanning salons and the manufacturing of tanning beds and tanning lamps would collapse. Boy, I can sure see why this would be a bad thing!

Only if we change back to a hunting culture and the men go back to going around outside with nothing but a loincloth on. All in favor?

[_dartagnan]

For sure there are lots of cheap targets in history. I never use the crusades or mountain meadows when I criticize religion, and so I was disappointed to see you (in particular) stooping to Hitler and Stalin. But you say you were just responding to lazy atheists -- yeah, I now see what you mean. I cannot agree with everything the atheists have said in this thread.

Dude,

I wasn’t trying to stoop the way you thought because the whole point was that atheism doesn’t represent the latest in human evolution; this is what several people have been driving at, either directly or indirectly, for quite some time. I wasn’t trying to waggle my finger and say “Look these guys were atheists so atheism is evil.” Such an argument would be dumb. So I wasn’t attacking atheism by saying some tyrants were atheist. I don’t use the MMM either, but if Mormons started implying that to be LDS is to be enlightened to the point where morality comes naturally, I would probably bring it up just to debunk that assertion.


SWSU,

Agreed that you don't need religion to do really bad things, but religion is not necessary for morality either, which is the point of this thread.

It is? Well, I guess that explains some confusion on my part. Beastie mentioned a post at MADD but Log just asked questions. He didn’t seem to be making the dogmatic assertions that lit a fuse with the resident atheists. As theists, many people really don’t understand what would motivate an atheist to do good things. I don’t think it means they would become Ted Bundy’s without religion. I think it is a genuine desire to know what drives an atheist to do good. Atheists offer reasons for this that are far from uncomplicated and palpable, so we shouldn’t be surprised that theists just don’t “get it.”

Atheists who simply replace religion with another form of worship and idolatry fall into the same problem that has plagued so many religions. Communism is an easy atheist target for theists, but communists simply replaced the church with a political party. The problem isn't so much religion/atheism, it's idolatry. Idolizing authority figures to the point of blind obedience leads to immorality. This is prevelant in religion, but it exists in other movements as well, particularly political movements. JMO.

And that is the thrust of my argument; it goes both ways to the point that religion can be can be excused as the cause for political crimes, just the same as crimes by Stalin cannot b attributed to atheism. So how in the hell could you say religion is the cause of misery in recent years? I assumed you would start “stooping” by throwing out the Crusades and other unpleasant parts of religious history. I just decided to make a preemptive move by throwing out a few atheist dictators.

[_Tommy]

Dear Sister Blixa,

Thank you for your question. Now, I have to be somewhat cautious here because not all among us are disciples of your caliber and the matter of doctrine you imply is a deep one. Yes, there may very well be a "darkening" that besets humanity in a literal way should the gospel be taken from the earth. Let's keep that between you and me for now because I'm not sure others are prepared to understand it.

Feel free to drop by my office any time and I'd be happy to consult the scriptures together on this matter.

[_Boyd_K_Packer]

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that without the gospel I would be prone to all manner of wickedness. For behold, just yesterday I attended a session at the local excercise establishment. While attending to my excercises, I witnessed exceeding displays of physical sexuality amongst both the male and female patrons. Scantily clad bodies rippling with masculinity performed bench presses and deep squats while surrouonded by exposed cleavages and bouncing bosoms on the treadmills. These immoral displays caused the worldy desires within me to stir. Had it not been for the hymns which I keep strategically stored in my short term memory for such emergencies, I fear I would not have been able to control the desire to self fornicate myself in the locker room shower. The hymn I chose to sing silently within my head was "Put your shoulder to the wheel." This sacred hymn kept my mind focused on the task at hand, which was to excercise my muscles, not my worldy passions. I barely escaped this close encounter with my chastity intact, only because I have the gospel in my life. Without the gospel, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I would live my life as a chronic masturbator.

I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Boyd K. Packer

[_harmony]

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that without the gospel I would be prone to all manner of wickedness. For behold, just yesterday I attended a session at the local excercise establishment. While attending to my excercises, I witnessed exceeding displays of physical sexuality amongst both the male and female patrons. Scantily clad bodies rippling with masculinity performed bench presses and deep squats while surrouonded by exposed cleavages and bouncing bosoms on the treadmills. These immoral displays caused the worldy desires within me to stir. Had it not been for the hymns which I keep strategically stored in my short term memory for such emergencies, I fear I would not have been able to control the desire to self fornicate myself in the locker room shower. The hymn I chose to sing silently within my head was "Put your shoulder to the wheel." This sacred hymn kept my mind focused on the task at hand, which was to excercise my muscles, not my worldy passions. I barely escaped this close encounter with my chastity intact, only because I have the gospel in my life. Without the gospel, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I would live my life as a chronic masturbator.

I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Boyd K. Packer

Embarrassing, that's what this is. And downright stupid.