harmony wrote:We are required to judge our leaders, Wade, to question and critique. Otherwise we would be unprofitable servants, and Lord knows God has more than enough of those. I would be hypocritical, like so many of our TBM members, were I to allow our leaders a free pass, just because they're our leaders.
They'll never learn to appreciate you, Harmony, but keep on keeping on anyway.
wenglund wrote:If re-editing the book would help strike a more favorable (to all parties concerned) balance between discouraging sexual infractions and help those who have committed sexual infraction better overcme their infraction and/or help confort and consol those who are suffering as a result of someone elses sexual infraction, then I would be all for it as well.
However, I wonder whether that would be the outcome or not. Unfortunately, too often when the seriousness of the consequences of sexual sin are "mercifully" diminished, the frequency of the sexual sins, and the consequences to other parties for those transgressions (such as kids who are aversely affected by an adulterous parent), tend to increase.
I am not prepared to harshly judge those who may error on one side of the balance or the other, but will trust that their efforts are motivated out of love and concern--and I think this is especially true of Pres. Kimball. I can't imagine how anyone, who is well acquinted with that dear man, or who has stood close by in his presence (as I had the opportunity to do at one time), could think otherwise.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Wade, I think when God's love and forgiveness is asked for, it is given. Don't you think we should be Christ-like and do the same? How are any profited by failing to heal wounds and give succor? As far as thinking ill of President Kimball, I do not. (by the way, I got to stand close by him in his home on Laird Ave.)
harmony wrote:We are required to judge our leaders, Wade, to question and critique. Otherwise we would be unprofitable servants, and Lord knows God has more than enough of those. I would be hypocritical, like so many of our TBM members, were I to allow our leaders a free pass, just because they're our leaders.
Keep thinking that. But you're wrong to hurl assaults against living people anonymously. That is true hypocrisy.
rcrocket wrote:Keep thinking that. But you're wrong to hurl assaults against living people anonymously. That is true hypocrisy.
rcrocket
What a crock, crock. True hypocrisy is taking the money that people gave with pure hearts to build up God's kindom and using it to buy shopping malls instead. True hypocrisy is writing a revelation to cover one's adultery. True hypocrisy is whitewashing history. True hypocrisy is institutionalized via demands for loyalty to the church at the expense of loyalty to God. True hypocrisy is insinuating man's racism into God's words. True hypocrisy is demanding accountability from the members while keeping the books closed.
I can't even begin to touch the true hypocrisy of our leaders, crock.
Excuse me for not reading all the crap in the middle of this thread. I got a couple of questions:
So if it is better to die and you intentionally go that route, wouldn’t that be akin to assisting in your own death? Contributing to your own death - Suicide.
Because suicide is murder, would it not be less tolerable to have a hand in your own death than to remain alive whilst your lilly is guilded?
If you're dead because you killed yourself and the dirtbag ends up raping a corpse, what virtue is left intact? The physical virtue?
Can another human being actually rob spiritual virtue? What would he have to show for it if he has it and you don't?
Can a rapist rob spiritual virtue without taking physical virtue?
Something else to consider:
Just because sexual sin is next to murder, it doesn't necessarily mean it's actually near it. It may mean there just isn't anything in the vast expanse between them.
Inconceivable wrote:Excuse me for not reading all the crap in the middle of this thread. I got a couple of questions:
So if it is better to die and you intentionally go that route, wouldn’t that be akin to assisting in your own death? Contributing to your own death - Suicide.
Because suicide is murder, would it not be less tolerable to have a hand in your own death than to remain alive whilst your lilly is guilded?
If you're dead because you killed yourself and the dirtbag ends up raping a corpse, what virtue is left intact? The physical virtue?
Can another human being actually rob spiritual virtue? What would he have to show for it if he has it and you don't?
Can a rapist rob spiritual virtue without taking physical virtue?
Something else to consider:
Just because sexual sin is next to murder, it doesn't necessarily mean it's actually near it. It may mean there just isn't anything in the vast expanse between them.
Suicide is not contributing to your own death, it's choosing to end your life. Many of the early Christian martyrs could have averted their deaths by denying their beliefs. They didn't but they're not responsible for their deaths. The people that had them killed are.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
I would do the same in that I would do my best to defend the victim and make sure that they got any medical attention they needed afterwards and would be more than willing to appear in court to testify against her assailant in the unlikely event the guy lived throiugh the encounter.
That doesn't exactly answer my question. I am asking if you would be willing to put your life in danger to stop a women from being raped? If so (and I suspect that, as a good Marine, you would), then aren't you unavoidably placing a higher value on the woman's virtue (as I understand the term--I.e. sanctity, safety, liberty, and so forth) more than your life?[/quote]
I think it is better said one would fight to protec the victims well being, safety, etc and would be willing to put themselves in peril. You see Wade, a woman really does not lose virtue, Old Testament virginity, when raped. To propose that a rape victim would be better having died in order to not lose virginity is a false premise as well as a stupid idea. wrong, damaging to those who have been raped and lived. Defending it as a good teaching is assinine.
Wade please answer this question that I have previously aasked you:
Wade
If you had a daughter that was raped and survived would you ask her if she fought hard enough to perserve her viriginity? Would you have rather had her die in the process?
The Nehor wrote:Suicide is not contributing to your own death, it's choosing to end your life.
Smoke what? Contributing to your own death = Ending your life
The Nehor wrote: Many of the early Christian martyrs could have averted their deaths by denying their beliefs. They didn't but they're not responsible for their deaths. The people that had them killed are.
By that same rationale then, an Islamic suicide bober is now a Martyr Bomber, also, even though they made a concious discion to carry out an action that they knew would result in their death, it's the fault of whatever government they were trying to work the will of allah against.