The Egyptian Test

[_The Dude]

Tell me, would you agree to do an interview for Will's project? Maybe it's just me, I guess...

No, but it's nothing personal. I don't trust editors who have an opposing world view to interpret my statements the way I mean them. There would have to be more oversight.

Also, I wouldn't be anonymous. I would have to be filmed in shadows with a Darth Vader voice. LOL

Also, I'm not going to be in Utah for the forseeable future.

[_Who Knows]

CK - thanks for the information. The only part I don't really follow is how he goes from 'invocation' to 'book of hymns'. In other words, why does he think Seyffarth saw the phrase 'book of hymns' (which Gee then believes was actually the phrase 'the beginning of the book of')? Because Seyffarth described it as an 'invocation'?

[_Who Knows]

No, but it's nothing personal. I don't trust editors who have an opposing world view to interpret my statements the way I mean them. There would have to be more oversight.

Yeah, I guess that's probably it. Maybe 50/50 between that and Will himself.

Also, I wouldn't be anonymous. I would have to be filmed in shadows with a Darth Vader voice. LOL

I believe Will said he'd be willing to do that. :)

[_dartagnan]

I take personally, being lied to.

Do you?

[_Bond...James Bond]

Yeah I read that thread.....quite irritating really. Here are the key things I've figured out:

1) Charity is the biggest waste of bandwidth in the history of bandwidth (that post where she was "offended on behalf of Gee" made the word stupid no longer adequate in describing Charity.....I'm going to have to invent a new word to describe charity's brand of idiocy)

I wouldn't call her an idiot.....

You're nicer than me. Maybe not idiocy exactly, but if we were to bottle her we'd have pure naïve.

[_CaliforniaKid]

CK - thanks for the information. The only part I don't really follow is how he goes from 'invocation' to 'book of hymns'. In other words, why does he think Seyffarth saw the phrase 'book of hymns' (which Gee then believes was actually the phrase 'the beginning of the book of')? Because Seyffarth described it as an 'invocation'?

He provides a couple other supporting arguments, but that's pretty much the gist of it. Here's the relevant portion of his essay:

While the papyri were in the Saint Louis Museum, Gustavus Seyffarth, who was a rival to Jean-François Champollion,45 viewed at least one of the papyri rolls in 1856 and pronounced, "the papyrus roll is not a record, but an invocation to the Deity Osirus, in which occurs the name of the person, (Horus,) and a picture of the attendant spirits, introducing the dead to the Judge, Osirus."46 The "picture" described seems to be Facsimile 3. This indicates that the part of the roll that JSP I, XI, and X came from was still preserved as a roll in 1856 and that Facsimile 3 of the Book of Abraham was on that roll. The contents of the Saint Louis Museum were sold to the Wood Museum and moved to Chicago, where the same description was repeated in the 1863 catalog.47 This group of antiquities seems to have been destroyed in the Chicago fire of 1871.

...

that there would have been two other columns on the roll of Hor's papyrus in addition to the vignette preserved as Facsimile 3 in the Book of Abraham. These columns would contain the abridged version of the negative confession, but no real invocations to Osiris as described by Seyffarth.57 This argues for more than one text on the roll;58 thus we would expect more to have remained on the roll than the two columns of text from the Book of Breathings and the vignette (Facsimile 3).

57. Seyffarth might have mistaken the epithet of Osiris applied to Hor as the name of the god, although this is doubtful for two reasons: (1) Seyffarth consistently renders the term Wsír before a personal name as "the most holy one" ("A Remarkable Papyrus Scroll," plate XIX no. 11, line 64, and no. 15, line 134). (2) Seyffarth did identify another Book of Breathings as a book of hymns, translating ḥ3ty-ʿ m šʿy n snsnw ír.n ʾIs.t n sn=s Wsír "beginning of the book of breathings which Isis made for her brother Osiris" as "The Book of Hymns for singing the glories of him who made the Isis (the earth), (the glories) of that invisible being who made Osiris (the sun)" (ibid., 530 and plate XIX nos. 8–9, lines 1–14). Specifically it is the phrase ḥ3ty-ʿ m šʿy "beginning of the book" that Seyffarth renders as "Book of Hymns" (ibid., plate XIX no. 8, lines 1–4). This indicates that Seyffarth, in identifying a text as an "invocation," might have read the beginning lines of another text, one after the Book of Breathings.

http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/publica ... chapid=268

-CK

[_Who Knows]

CK - Got it now. Thanks.

Now I'm even more confused though by Gee's 'test', and the relevance in being able to 'translate' egyptian - and how it relates to being able to evaluate the strength of his argument regarding Seyffarth. Oh well.

[_Runtu]

CK - Got it now. Thanks.

Now I'm even more confused though by Gee's 'test', and the relevance in being able to 'translate' egyptian - and how it relates to being able to evaluate the strength of his argument regarding Seyffarth. Oh well.

Well, that was my question as well. Doesn't matter, as our "bluffs" have now officially been called.

[_Dr. Shades]

I am thinking of dedicating an entire website to the incompetence of BYU scholars.

Oh man, I am salivating over such a prospect! If you pull this off, please let us know!

[_Bond...James Bond]

I am thinking of dedicating an entire website to the incompetence of BYU scholars.

Is there enough Internet space to cover a website that big?