Enmeshed

[_Sam Harris]

Perhaps folks can touch on the topic (again) of why it is that when speaking against the church the words "hate" and "anger" come up so quickly from defenders. Why is this? Is it because those who are defenders see the church and themselves to be inseparable? Is it because the critics are really angry? Is it just a way to "turn off the noise", meaning avoid thinking about the uncomfortable topics?

Thoughts?

I'm just wondering, because I haven't shot a Mormon yet, but I'm supposed to be brimming over with this rage. Perhaps one of you could help me.

[_The Nehor]

I think it's a natural reaction to a perceived attack on something you hold dear. When you hold something to be beautiful you want others to see it too and share in your appreciation. The perceived reaction to one who doesn't see it is that they're lowbrow or 'missed something'. It's akin to someone denigrating a painting you admire, a person you respect, a movie that you feel is inspiring, etc.

It's not limited to important things. I knew a guy in High School who would go into a near-homicidal rage if you implied that Star Wars was better than Star Trek. There's also a perception that it's unhealthy to spend so much time speaking against something you believe is false. In some cases this criticism is valid. In others, not.

[_Yoda]

think it's a natural reaction to a perceived attack on something you hold dear.

I can understand that view when applied to someone like PP or Merc, who honestly do feel that the entire religion of Mormonism is garbage, but, to my knowledge, they are the only two posters on the board who feel that way.

I have never heard GIMR come out and say that Mormonism is trash. She has expressed things that she experienced while she was a member, and laid out pros and cons. She has also consistently made it clear that her reasoning for no longer being a member is due to her personal experiences. She has many friends who are members (including myself) and has the utmost respect for them, and for their decision to believe.

For what it's worth, GIMR, I don't understand why anyone would say you are filled with hatred or rage, either.

Of course, I have also been accused of having hatred toward the Church by Juliann in the past. However, I think that was mainly due to her disagreements with me on other issues. I have also been accused of being a hypocrite on this board by Plutarch and PP. PP considers me a hypocrite because I attend Church and continue to be a member even though I don't agree with all of the Church's policy. Plutarch thinks I'm a hypocrite because I don't post my views using my real name.

Oh, well...to each his own! LOL

[_Sam Harris]

I think it's a natural reaction to a perceived attack on something you hold dear. When you hold something to be beautiful you want others to see it too and share in your appreciation. The perceived reaction to one who doesn't see it is that they're lowbrow or 'missed something'. It's akin to someone denigrating a painting you admire, a person you respect, a movie that you feel is inspiring, etc.

It's not limited to important things. I knew a guy in High School who would go into a near-homicidal rage if you implied that Star Wars was better than Star Trek. There's also a perception that it's unhealthy to spend so much time speaking against something you believe is false. In some cases this criticism is valid. In others, not.

I must just be too laid back. I mean, I want people to see me as beautiful, because I think I'm the shiznit, but if you don't, that's just your loss. I believe that "God don't make ugly, people do", so I feel comfortable with myself, and would hope that others could get to that point as well.

Perhaps it's because I have so many different religions in my family (and grew up between two), that I do not attach easily to one. I chose to be Christian, but my faith is just that, faith. I don't need knowledge, to me it defeats the whole purpose. Which is why I'm not bothered when people question my faith, or when I can't find an answer to their questions.

I have an atheist friend who has seen more hell than I can have nightmares about. I'd have his kids, but he got himself fixed. I can't answer the questions as to why God allowed his life to turn out the way it did. He's a Vietnam vet, he lost his mom tragically, as well as his sister. He's angry at God, but should I turn against him and call him hateful? I don't see hatred, I see questions I as a human cannot answer.

I've seen the "hate" card played so often during my journey through and out of the LDS church. Unless you are a good, quiet member in good standing, sooner or later you're gonna either be hateful or angry. To me, the LDS church is just one part of the body of Christ, and a part that I don't fit into for reasons obvious to me. I haven't picketed anywhere, I haven't passed out any tracts, I don't tell anyone beware, and I don't engage in debate with my friends. Where's the hate? Where's the anger?

I honestly think that the accusations of hate and anger are just sensational jabs that weak people use to figuratively plug their ears against the truth. "You hate me" means "I can't handle what you're saying".

[_Sam Harris]

think it's a natural reaction to a perceived attack on something you hold dear.

I can understand that view when applied to someone like PP or Merc, who honestly do feel that the entire religion of Mormonism is garbage, but, to my knowledge, they are the only two posters on the board who feel that way.

I have never heard GIMR come out and say that Mormonism is trash. She has expressed things that she experienced while she was a member, and laid out pros and cons. She has also consistently made it clear that her reasoning for no longer being a member is due to her personal experiences. She has many friends who are members (including myself) and has the utmost respect for them, and for their decision to believe.

For what it's worth, GIMR, I don't understand why anyone would say you are filled with hatred or rage, either.

Of course, I have also been accused of having hatred toward the Church by Juliann in the past. However, I think that was mainly due to her disagreements with me on other issues. I have also been accused of being a hypocrite on this board by Plutarch and PP. PP considers me a hypocrite because I attend Church and continue to be a member even though I don't agree with all of the Church's policy. Plutarch thinks I'm a hypocrite because I don't post my views using my real name.

Oh, well...to each his own! LOL

For what it's worth Liz, I think that PP and Merc are the only two on the board who are openly anti-Mormon. And for that I respect them. Why? Full disclosure. I respect people who can come straight up to me and say, "I am this", and "this" be the truth. That's why I can talk to them.

Juliann is on crack. Plutarch is her supplier. Enough said.

I've told PP before that he is just on the opposite extreme from that which he loathes, and he always goes on and on about "well, the church thinks". Like I give a damn. So? I'm not bound by what my church thinks...they think...good for them.

The one thing I do not understand is why people just cannot focus more on an authentic individual one-on-one relationship with God, instead of trying to get others to be part of the "right religion". You and others on here are trying to do that, and I can say that those who don't believe in God at all are doing this, in that they're just trying to be good people, and that's far better than the scripture thumpers. If there is a heaven, they'll get there faster than the recruiters who use fear tactics, guilt, and manipulation.

Well anyways, here's a virgin strawberry daquiri for ya. And one for me. I can't have alcohol (or caffeine, sh**) anymore due to the headaches....or much salt, either. Though I do sneak tea every once in a while. Ain't nothing else here to drink right now. :-) We'll just chill and watch the nuts walk by...

[_Seven]

I think Liz is right. There are a very slim minority of people here who trash Mormonism and are "anti Mormon." (I can only think of 2)

If somebody is critical of something you love, it is easy to form negative feelings for that person. It is often the person who was offended by the critic of Mormonism that is feeling the hatred for the other, and not the other way around. It's funny to read abusive posters accuse the calm ones of "hating" and "trashing" when they are the ones posting with such anger and hatred.

I haven't seen anything close to trashing or hating of Mormonism from you GIMR. You seem like a very peaceful person who has found a relationship with God that is healthy.