Quote of Joseph Smith?

[_barrelomonkeys]

Thanks for the responses. I wish there were actually more apologetics here so I could hear their responses.

I came across that quote just because it occurred to me that there might be some sort of official Christian apologetics. I searched and came across CARM. I saw that in the "Mormon" section.

I think the faith LDS exemplify is really amazing! I have no ill will toward LDS or what they do or how they do it. I just don't understand the charisma of Joseph Smith. It is really hard for me. I've wondered is it okay to ignore Joseph Smith and still be LDS? Is that possible? Is he necessary for the salvation according to LDS beliefs? Is it possible the Book of Mormon is divine and yet not praise Joseph Smith?

[_The Nehor]

"...A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet," (Joseph Smith, HC, vol. 6:408-409).

Actually, once again Joseph was wrong (the man had a real talent for it!) The Christian church never disintegrated. It's still around with billions of followers in various sects around the world. It was certainly around when Joseph was alive. Just because he claimed he was told the churches were all wrong doesn't mean the church disintegrated or failed.

If you accept that the Church of Christ was not on the Earth than it can be said that Christ's Church failed.

[_harmony]

I've wondered is it okay to ignore Joseph Smith and still be LDS?

Yes

Is that possible?

Yes

Is he necessary for the salvation according to LDS beliefs?

No.

Is it possible the Book of Mormon is divine and yet not praise Joseph Smith?

I'm working on it.

[_Yoda]

Oh good grief. I just transcribed 75% of an old talk I had on cassette so I could make a post for Tal about discerning feelings from promptings of the Holy Ghost. ( I need to post that) I'm in no hurry to transcribe another any time soon.

I hope you used spell-check! ;)

Just kidding, Gazzy! Love ya!

LOL

[_Yoda]

"...A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet," (Joseph Smith, HC, vol. 6:408-409).

What is the HC? What is the context of this? What do apologetics say about this? TBM?

Just from an outsider investigating I feel unnerved when I read this.

Does anyone have a copy of the entire quote? What is the context surrounding this statement? That might help clarify some things.

[_Dr. Shades]

Does anyone have a copy of the entire quote? What is the context surrounding this statement? That might help clarify some things.

Your wish is my command. Here it is.

[_Yoda]

Thanks, Shades! :)

by the way...I LOVE your new signature! It gave me a well-needed chuckle this morning.

For those interested, here is a larger snapshot of Joseph Smith's quote:

Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo.
(Sunday, May 26, 1844)

President Joseph Smith read the 11th Chap. II Corinthians. My object is to let you know that I am right here on the spot where I intend to stay. I, like Paul, have been in perils, and oftener than anyone in this generation. As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did. I should be like a fish out of water, if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted. If oppression will make a wise man mad, much more a fool. If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster: I shall always beat them. When facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail at last. My enemies are no philosophers: they think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down; but for the fools, I will hold on and fly over them.

God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil—all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation. I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good people. How I do love to hear the wolves howl! When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go. For the last three years I have a record of all my acts and proceedings, for I have kept several good, faithful, and efficient clerks in constant employ: they have accompanied me everywhere, and carefully kept my history, and they have written down what I have done, where I have been, and what I have said; therefore my enemies cannot charge me with any day, time, or place, but what I have written testimony to prove my actions; and my enemies cannot prove anything against me. They have got wonderful things in the land of Ham. I think the grand jury have strained at a gnat and swallowed the camel.

I'm really not trying to defend Joseph here. I agree that stating what he said was inappropriate. However, if you look at the context, I really think it was meant as more of a means to unify the Saints after there was talk of them being driven from Nauvoo.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Thanks for the context. I'm not sure what I feel about that. It's almost like John Lennon and the "more popular than Jesus" line.

It's actually probably unfortunate, for Joseph Smith, that he did have people writing down all of his words.

[_silentkid]

Regardless of the context or any apologetic spin, he still comes across as sounding like a pompous jerk.

[_Some Schmo]

Regardless of the context or any apologetic spin, he still comes across as sounding like a pompous jerk.

It was probably hard to be humble when he successfully conned as many people as he did.