Our praise of Joseph Smith is the praise of gratitude for what he'd done (which is a lot). I can think of only a few historical figures who have done as much in their life.
I read and reread and really wondered what precisely did Joseph Smith do. I'm not attacking LDS by asking this. I sincerely want to know what he did during his life time that is praise worthy?
Any other historical figures stack up?
I have a very limited knowledge of Joseph Smith. I understand he started the LDS Church and I understand for someone that is currently LDS that is probably the most important thing anyone could ever do. But I'm not a LDS, so other than that, what did he do?
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
barrelomonkeys wrote:I read and reread and really wondered what precisely did Joseph Smith do. I'm not attacking LDS by asking this. I sincerely want to know what he did during his life time that is praise worthy?
You'll have to read the posts from the TBMs here to find that out. I can tell you the general exmo response straight off: He was a fraud, charlatan, and false prophet.
barrelomonkeys wrote:I read and reread and really wondered what precisely did Joseph Smith do. I'm not attacking LDS by asking this. I sincerely want to know what he did during his life time that is praise worthy?
You'll have to read the posts from the TBMs here to find that out. I can tell you the general exmo response straight off: He was a fraud, charlatan, and false prophet.
Ray, I know I'll get the general ex-LDS response... I usually tune it out unless it's of some substance. I was just a little surprised when I saw that statement. Especially the part about stacking his accomplishments up against any other historical figures. I realized I didn't really know what LDS believe he did. If I understood this, then maybe that would bring me closer to understanding the reverence.
Actually, this is a good question. Outside of starting the LDS church (which is a significant achievement, no matter what you think of it) what did Joseph Smith contribute to the world? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything he did that didn't invlove building up his church. His influence simply didn't extend beyond that. He was a church leader, plain and simple. Perhaps if he had become involved in politics, which he was just starting before he died, he could've extended his influence, but outside of being a church leader he had little influence. Some critics would say he introduced polygamy, which we are still dealing with in Colorado City and other communities out West, but I give Brigham Young credit for that. As for Joseph Smith, his conribution to the world was his church, and Jehovah Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists can say the same for their leaders.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
SatanWasSetUp wrote:Actually, this is a good question. Outside of starting the LDS church (which is a significant achievement, no matter what you think of it) what did Joseph Smith contribute to the world? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything he did that didn't invlove building up his church. His influence simply didn't extend beyond that. He was a church leader, plain and simple. Perhaps if he had become involved in politics, which he was just starting before he died, he could've extended his influence, but outside of being a church leader he had little influence. Some critics would say he introduced polygamy, which we are still dealing with in Colorado City and other communities out West, but I give Brigham Young credit for that. As for Joseph Smith, his conribution to the world was his church, and Jehovah Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists can say the same for their leaders.
And even the critic of Book of Mormon historicity, Michael Coe, could say on PBS that Joseph Smith was not only one of the greatest Americans who ever lived, but also possibly one of the greatest human beings who ever lived.
It is a good question. I agree with SWSU that Joseph Smith's accomplishments were limited to building his church. I have to give BY credit for a legacy that extends beyond that.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
barrelomonkeys wrote:I read and reread and really wondered what precisely did Joseph Smith do. I'm not attacking LDS by asking this. I sincerely want to know what he did during his life time that is praise worthy?
You'll have to read the posts from the TBMs here to find that out. I can tell you the general exmo response straight off: He was a fraud, charlatan, and false prophet.
Instead of telling us what our responses are, why don't you tell us what yours is?
I assume the TBM will say it's because he brought about celestial marriage, eternal families, etc.
I can't think of anything great he did for non-believers (the world and its population as a whole).
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
Ray A wrote: And even the critic of Book of Mormon historicity, Michael Coe, could say on PBS that Joseph Smith was not only one of the greatest Americans who ever lived, but also possibly one of the greatest human beings who ever lived.
Small minds cannot comprehend this.
That may be true, but that isn't the question. The question is what did Joseph Smith do? Obviously he was beloved by his followers, and I happen to think he is one of the most interesting characters in American history. But the original question was in response to LDS who are grateful for everything he did, and would stack him up against any historical figure. My argument is although he may have been a great person, his influence was small.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
Blixa wrote:It is a good question. I agree with SWSU that Joseph Smith's accomplishments were limited to building his church. I have to give BY credit for a legacy that extends beyond that.
I guess a valid question would be (or perhaps it's not very valid):
Would Brigham Young's legacy (and the settling of the West, etc.) have been brought to fruition without Joseph Smith?
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
barrelomonkeys wrote:Nehor wrote this in the Celestial Forum:
Our praise of Joseph Smith is the praise of gratitude for what he'd done (which is a lot). I can think of only a few historical figures who have done as much in their life.
I read and reread and really wondered what precisely did Joseph Smith do?
He was the conduit for the restoration of the living gospel of Jesus Christ and the re-establishment of His only true church complete with all the ordinances necessary for salvation and exaltation including polygamy.
Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon which is a record of God's interactions with the ancient inhabitants of the American continent and which contains the words of many prophets. A man may get closer to God by obeying the precepts contained in that book than by any other book.
He also translated a sacred Egyptian papyri which has become known as the Book of Abraham. He also explained the meaning and identity of the symbols and figures in the accompanying facsimiles.
Joseph Smith saw God the father and his son Jesus Christ in the flesh and thereby revealed that they have bodies like ours only perfect and glorified.
He also discovered the remains of Zelph the great white Lamanite prophet.