Dr. Shades wrote:Let's back up a little. The people on MAD are what's called "Internet Mormons." They differ quite vastly from the "Chapel Mormons" which make up at least 95% of the rest of Mormondom.
I just read that as well as some other things on the site. Thanks.
I think I've gotten a rather skewed perspective of LDS then. I don't know why people believing in Adam and Eve is so bothersome to me... Why should I care that they teach that? For some reason that is really shocking to me. I thought the few people on MAD (Hammer comes to mind, bless his heart) were just flukes. I guess not. They epitomize the mainstream LDS thought?
My husband is going to care. It makes me so sad for him. :(
barrelomonkeys wrote:Wow! I was not aware of this. From posting on MAD I thought most LDS did not believe in a literal garden of eden. I'm really surprised by this.
Let's back up a little. The people on MAD are what's called "Internet Mormons." They differ quite vastly from the "Chapel Mormons" which make up at least 95% of the rest of Mormondom.
The Nehor wrote:The LDS do not make a claim for the inerrancy of any Scripture.
Yes, right, but the Book of Mormon is the most correct of them all, right?
Most correct of any book on Earth, that doesn't make it inerrant.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
barrelomonkeys wrote:Wow! I was not aware of this. From posting on MAD I thought most LDS did not believe in a literal garden of eden. I'm really surprised by this.
Let's back up a little. The people on MAD are what's called "Internet Mormons." They differ quite vastly from the "Chapel Mormons" which make up at least 95% of the rest of Mormondom.
I've taken the Shades quiz. I come out of it as a "chapel Mormon."
Yet, I suspect, I'm supposed to be the quintessential "internet Mormon."
His "vast" dichotomy is bogus.
Dr. Peterson,
Are most LDS fundamentalists in that they believe that there was a literal Adam and Eve and a garden of Eden?
I think that bothers me... and scares me a bit because the only other people I'm aware of that believe this are Southern Baptists and the Church of Christ. I have many neighbors that believe this. They're good people and I don't think less of them for this belief, but it still startles me. It seems that to believe that you would have to discount much of evolution and science that points to evolution. That bothers me that many people seem to think that science is attacking religion... and if you believe in much of the Bible as literal it makes sense that you would see science as attacking it.
Chapel v. Internet notwithstanding, I would think most of the Mormons that post on MAD do believe in a literal Adam and Eve---or am I wrong? I'd like to know what others think.
I like Shades's distinction, but I don't read "chapel" and "internet" literally: in other words, I think there are some chapel Mormons who are regular posters on MAD, in fact the board seems to have a range of types of believers from the most dogmatically fundamentalist to the "postmodern."
That said, I don't think the anti-foundationalist line that is argued by some of the most vociferous posters on MAD is representative of mainstream Mormonism. And the theoretical and philosophically-laced inquiry found elsewhere Mormons congregate on the internet (the Bloggernacle) is also not representaive of the rank and file.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
This sounds like bragging but I found out much of what you seem to think people should know. I learned it because I wanted to know. I bought books, I read articles, I researched in libraries. Those who want knowledge will find it. Those who don't won't. Some of them may not need it. For some reason I do. This life is definitely not an intelligence test being given by God or we'd all be royally screwed but maybe I have a calling or some trial that this information will help me with.
The problem is, most folks believe they do know.
They think the story they are taught is true. They are bearing their testimony about something clearly untrue and the leaders know it!
If you thought you understood something what is it you would go searching for? Why search out something in a library if you think you are being taught a truth in Sunday School?
I struggle with the idea that leaders KNOW members are misinformed because of the church and yet don't help and heal the situation.
~dancer~
I have my doubts that woman was taught what she was saying. Based on your story I think she took the teaching that the Book of Mormon was for our day and changed that in her mind to mean they were so like us.
I don't think most folks think they know. I've acquired a reputation in my ward as being one of the people you can bring questions to. They all know there are books they haven't read and most know that things are much more complex than the surface smatterings they pick up.
Sunday School does teach truth, eternal truth. History is only addressed peripherally. I don't know how to help those who think they're learning in-depth history there. These are the same people I assume who think they have an in-depth understanding of U.S. history because they took a survey course on it in High School or College.
If people thought they knew it all I doubt the "Work and the Glory" would have sold so well. They saw it as accessible and fun history (though calling it history is quite the leap) and the people ate it up and discussed aspects of it often. You can't walk into a Church bookstore without seeing many books extrapolating Book of Mormon history or discussing Biblical archaeology and the like. Only a few people buy those but half the adult members I know have now read "Work and the Glory". So the key to selling LDS history to members is to sensationalize....in other words, be less exact about fact. No matter what my gripes about capitalism are it would work in this respect. There are MANY people who would flood the market with books on every aspect of LDS and Book of Mormon history if it was more than a niche market. There isn't.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Not only do the LDS believe in Adam and Eve, but Joseph Smith taught the Garden of Eden resides in fact, in Jackson County Missouri. The name of the place in the pure Adamic language is Adam-ondi-ohmen. It is very important for Adam to be literal as he was known as Michael in the pre-existence and helped to create the earth.
Blixa wrote:Chapel v. Internet notwithstanding, I would think most of the Mormons that post on MAD do believe in a literal Adam and Eve---or am I wrong? I'd like to know what others think.
I like Shades's distinction, but I don't read "chapel" and "internet" literally: in other words, I think there are some chapel Mormons who are regular posters on MAD, in fact the board seems to have a range of types of believers from the most dogmatically fundamentalist to the "postmodern."
That said, I don't think the anti-foundationalist line that is argued by some of the most vociferous posters on MAD is representative of mainstream Mormonism. And the theoretical and philosophically-laced inquiry found elsewhere Mormons congregate on the internet (the Bloggernacle) is also not representaive of the rank and file.
As a matter of faith I believe only this statement which I condensed from other's statements: "Adam was the first man of all men of the race of Adam". I believe he and Eve are and were real but I would put no timetable on when they lived and am not too particular about what Eden was. I think the normal depictions as to what it is and what it meant are wrong. I have an idea of what the story means and how it works but I'll keep my mouth shut till I know enough to expound it more.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Some Schmo wrote:Very good. So you know enough about the religion to answer the questions in a way to get the result you wanted. Bravo.
Paradoxically, your deception (to us and yourself) tell a truth.
"I scored as a strong Yellow on the personaility test."
"HAAAA!!! That just proves you know how to work the test. You're an obvious Red."
If the whole Chapel and Intenet thing mean anything (which I don't think they do) what would you rate me as Schmo?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo