Mormon Misogyny

[_Gazelam]

Just musing here... but perhaps it has to do with hombres spending 2 years in Botswana while the senoritas are at BYU.

That could be the issue but the men tend to marry girls 1-3 years younger in general in the LDS faith meaning the senoritas do not have that much of a headstart before a relationship kicks in.

I am of the opinion that in these modern times Halo 2 is playing a large factor here. I've never played it myself, but I hear its addictive, and I also hear its a problem on college campuses.

[_barrelomonkeys]

I only have a minute, so I'll quickly give you a condensed reply and get back with more later. I promised to take the kids to the pool and it finally stopped raining this afternoon.

First, the exclusion of women from the priesthood, and therefore all positions of authority, automatically makes females subordinate to males. This subordination of females to males begins at the age of twelve when young boys first get the priesthood. The boys are the head of all dance committees, activities committees and any other activity that combines males and females. At least that's the way it was in my ward. They had the priesthood. The priesthood directed all the activities of the church, including Young Women's and Relief Society. There is no auxiliary in the Mormon church that isn't controlled by men, and again, it starts at the age of 12!

Girls and boys are taught that the proper place for a woman is in the home and that a woman's primary value is her ability to have children, which of course she can't do without a husband. As girls, we were taught in church activities how to cook and clean and care for children. The boys noticed this. They were busy planning extravagant scouting activities, like mountain climbing, while the girls were learning how to make crafts and change diapers.

In Young Women's, it was emphasized that nothing, including higher education, should come before marriage and children. I was specifically taught, like Blixa, that girls could educate themselves right out of a man! The boys, obviously, hear things from the President of the Mormon church that make it sound demeaning for men to marry women with more education than themselves.

Men make covenants with God in the temple. The women make covenants to their husbands.

Some LDS fathers pass on "authority" over their daughters to their daughter's new husbands when they get married. I was witness to two such blessings.

That's the short list. I need to run...er, swim. :)

KA

PS - One more quick thing: Boys are taught that non-virginal girls are gross and that they're "licked cupcakes". Girls are not taught that non-virginal boys are gross. At least I never was. But it was made clear to me that if I were to become a licked cupcake that no one would want me.

A lot of this sounds similar to what I heard growing up from my grannie who was born and raised in the South. It was definitely a "bless her heart" and bite my tongue every time I had to listen to her. Perhaps it is generational and much of this is changing? I know my step-son's mother is pretty outspoken and a head strong woman.

[_barrelomonkeys]

I don't believe they are taught so. But for KimberlyAnn that is not important. What is important is her own perception or lack of perception on the matter. People are encouraged to get an education, period. This applies to men as to women. Kimberly is blowing a lot of smoke in her posts. I know many highly educated LDS women. I also know many educated home bound moms. KimberlyAnn just has an ax to grind. She needs to head on over to Feministmormonhousewive.org to see the real picture. She would find that LDS women are a very diverse group of people.

why me, perhaps this is her perception and she can only speak of it as such. I think it is reasonable for her to speak of her own experience. I can't discount it. She can even speak to what she observed. It doesn't mean that I, or anyone else, would necessarily believe it is truth for all.

[_KimberlyAnn]

I don't believe they are taught so. But for KimberlyAnn that is not important. What is important is her own perception or lack of perception on the matter. People are encouraged to get an education, period. This applies to men as to women. Kimberly is blowing a lot of smoke in her posts. I know many highly educated LDS women. I also know many educated home bound moms. KimberlyAnn just has an ax to grind. She needs to head on over to Feministmormonhousewive.org to see the real picture. She would find that LDS women are a very diverse group of people.

Because you don't believe we were taught that, Why Me, doesn't mean we weren't. I, too, know several educated LDS women. Not a lot of highly educated ones, but a few. They are educated in spite of what the church teaches about not putting off marriage and childbirth, or they were like me, and waited until they were finished with college to get married or have children. I was married at eighteen, but didn't have my first (living) child until I was twenty-three, though I lost a baby in my first year of marriage.

My Bishop chastised me for not getting pregnant right away after I lost my first baby. I was even confirmed for a calling and during the confirmation the Bishop said the Lord wanted me to not be selfish and to do my best to bring a spirit child to earth. It was clear that I wasn't doing the right thing by waiting to get my B.A. before I had another baby. It is an indisputable teaching of the Mormon church that the most important thing a woman can do is have children, even at the expense of her education, career and personal and financial well being. This is not a generalization, this is the truth. Because you choose not to recognize it doesn't make it not true, Why Me.

I am a woman. I know what I was taught. I know enough about Mormon doctrine to know that what I was taught was in alignment with what Mormon prophets, past and present, have declared about the roles of women in Mormonism.

KA

[_The Nehor]

I am of the opinion that in these modern times Halo 2 is playing a large factor here. I've never played it myself, but I hear its addictive, and I also hear its a problem on college campuses.

The number of girls who refuse to date guys with game systems is rising.

[_KimberlyAnn]

A lot of this sounds similar to what I heard growing up from my grannie who was born and raised in the South. It was definitely a "bless her heart" and bite my tongue every time I had to listen to her. Perhaps it is generational and much of this is changing? I know my step-son's mother is pretty outspoken and a head strong woman.

Yes, I live in the South, and I agree, sexism exists everywhere, but in Mormonism, it's not only generational, it's doctrinal. Mormon men, doctrinally, can have harems of wives in the hereafter and their wives have no say in that arrangement. Mormon men will, supposedly, participate in the resurrection of their wives by calling out their "new name", which was revealed in the temple. The husband knows the wife's new name, but the woman isn't allowed to know her husband's. Why not? A husband wields power over his wife in heaven!

Mormon doctrine and teaching is sexist, misogynistic, even. Mormon culture is too, but if it weren't it wouldn't make a difference. Doctrinally it is, and no amount of feminist Mormon housewives is going to change that. No headstrong woman is going to change that. Only the old men who are in charge and ruling the Mormon church from Salt Lake City have the option of changing that. Only the men make changes.

KA

[_barrelomonkeys]

I lost a baby in my first year of marriage.

My Bishop chastised me for not getting pregnant right away after I lost my first baby. I was even confirmed for a calling and during the confirmation the Bishop said the Lord wanted me to not be selfish and to do my best to bring a spirit child to earth.

That is terrible. I'm sorry for your loss and that someone was so thoughtless to you.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Yes, I live in the South, and I agree, sexism exists everywhere, but in Mormonism, it's not only generational, it's doctrinal. Mormon men, doctrinally, can have harems of wives in the hereafter and their wives have no say in that arrangement. Mormon men will, supposedly, participate in the resurrection of their wives by calling out their "new name", which was revealed in the temple. The husband knows the wife's new name, but the woman isn't allowed to know her husband's. Why not? A husband wields power over his wife in heaven!

Mormon doctrine and teaching is sexist, misogynistic, even. Mormon culture is too, but if it weren't it wouldn't make a difference. Doctrinally it is, and no amount of feminist Mormon housewives is going to change that. No headstrong woman is going to change that. Only the old men who are in charge and ruling the Mormon church from Salt Lake City have the option of changing that. Only the men make changes.

KA

I understand what you're saying. One could only hope that as the torch is passed to younger generations of men (I bristle when I write this) that perhaps things will change. It's hard, as an outsider, to really comment on this. I consider myself a feminist. I took women studies courses and had my fair share of outrage, protests over issues near and dear to my heart when I was younger. I understand that there are some women perfectly happy living in the above type of situation. I personally don't believe God loves a woman less than a man. It is actually pretty obvious to me that God would love us more. :)

KA, where do you live in the South? I saw you write something yesterday about rain and then going swimming. We did the same thing, waited all day for the rain to stop.

by the way! HARRY POTTER IS IN THEATRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[_Yoda]

KA, where do you live in the South? I saw you write something yesterday about rain and then going swimming. We did the same thing, waited all day for the rain to stop.

I think there are a couple of us that are living in the South. It would be cool to get a Southern MDB gathering! ;)

I'm in NC.

[_barrelomonkeys]

KA, where do you live in the South? I saw you write something yesterday about rain and then going swimming. We did the same thing, waited all day for the rain to stop.

I think there are a couple of us that are living in the South. It would be cool to get a Southern MDB gathering! ;)

I'm in NC.

I'm in Middle TN. Oh yah! Let's do it!