KimberlyAnn wrote:And unfortunately, there are definitely misogynistic exmormons. Those men don't just change overnight once they decide to leave the church!
Also, Nehor, there are lots of bossy controlling Mormon women. It's my theory they're that way because they're grasping at any power they can wield, no matter how inconsequential, because they know that as Mormon women they're essentially powerless where it counts.
KA
I'm inclined to think that there are a lot of just misogynistic people. Could you tell my last gf that she's powerless where it counts? I think she'd laugh in your face.
I'm one of those who thinks that women will one day get the Priesthood and I suspect that day is coming soon. There is nothing in Scripture preventing it. When I discuss it with most girls I know they just don't care to have it. It's not that they feel unworthy they just don't care if they get it or not and these girls have no delusions about male superiority. Many of them have dated me ;)
This is an interesting point. I know some active Mormon women who would like to have the priesthood. But most I ask just don't. It is amazing to me. I would be happy to give it to them though.
the family today seems to be in disarray and most of the blame if this is true can be laid at the doorstep of modern times and the concepts of what just is a modern woman.
Yep.. blame women for the problems of society!
Blame Eve for the fall, mothers for not being good enough parents, women for being women, not listening to their husbands, and wanting to contribute to the world, whatever.
Did the church have anything to do with your propensity to blame women for the ills of society?
And people wonder why women are tired of being degraded and demeaned! :-(
I'll tell you what a modern women is... she is a women who wants to be considered an equal member of society, treated like a human being not a possession, and able to contribute her unique gifts and abilities and talents to the world to make it a better place!
There you have it! :-)
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
Lets put it rather simply. Children at the early stages need mom around. As they grow older, the father takes on more importance in the child's life. I have nothing against a women working...but it would be much better if she were at home durng the first five years of the child's life. Modern women have been corrupted by women's magazines which seem to display the modern women as job successful and a spitfire in the bedroom with a few partners along the way. Sorry, this just doesn't cut it with me. Old fashioned values are at times the best ones. Roles need to be clearly defined in the home with each gender crossing borders at times. I do not believe that the church downgrades women. But the LDS church tries to offer what is best for family life. Now it may be at of step with modern times but so what?
truth dancer wrote:Hi Why me...
the family today seems to be in disarray and most of the blame if this is true can be laid at the doorstep of modern times and the concepts of what just is a modern woman.
Yep.. blame women for the problems of society!
Blame Eve for the fall, mothers for not being good enough parents, women for being women, not listening to their husbands, and wanting to contribute to the world, whatever.
Did the church have anything to do with your propensity to blame women for the ills of society?
And people wonder why women are tired of being degraded and demeaned! :-(
I'll tell you what a modern women is... she is a women who wants to be considered an equal member of society, treated like a human being not a possession, and able to contribute her unique gifts and abilities and talents to the world to make it a better place!
Actually Russel Ballard in a General Conference talk implied that one should not be afraid to say no to callings. I think that I understood his talk correctly. And of course Hinckley is right. Through work, people can be blessed and we should all pray with faith. Pride is not a sin when such pride is focused in knowledge that what one is doing is helping humanity. The word pride can have a couple of connotations.
CFR about pride not being a sin when it "is focused in knowledge that what one is doing is helping humanity."
It's not what I was taught:
Pride is a very misunderstood sin, and many are sinning in ignorance. (See Mosiah 3:11; 3 Ne. 6:18.) In the scriptures there is no such thing as righteous pride—it is always considered a sin. Therefore, no matter how the world uses the term, we must understand how God uses the term so we can understand the language of holy writ and profit thereby. (See 2 Ne. 4:15; Mosiah 1:3–7; Alma 5:61.)
Ezra Taft Benson, “Beware of Pride,” Ensign, May 1989, 4
But I guess we can dismiss him as speaking as a man there.
No but I think that you misunderstood him here. Of course, we should have pride in our achievements as human beings and have pride in our children when they succeed. However, negative pride occurs when it blocks are humbleness and modesty. I think that you have misunderstood the essence of pride. Most LDS that I know are proud of their children and they are proud when they succeed. Likewise for other family members. Do overkill a dead horse.
No but I think that you misunderstood him here. Of course, we should have pride in our achievements as human beings and have pride in our children when they succeed. However, negative pride occurs when it blocks are humbleness and modesty. I think that you have misunderstood the essence of pride. Most LDS that I know are proud of their children and they are proud when they succeed. Likewise for other family members. Do overkill a dead horse.
Okay- Now I'm confused because I thought that religious people don't try to "have pride in our achievements as human beings" because quite frankly that sounds very humanistic and I thought they believed that achievements come from God. And without God, human beings are nothing and that everything good is supposed to be by the power and grace of God, and that humility is in acknowledging our nothingness. And I thought in the Bible when God says "here is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" was the "correct" way to feel happy about something. Because I was taught that pride was always a sin. But as you say- I just don't understand the "essence of pride". You're right about that.
But you see, this is why I am learning that religion is silly- because no matter what a prophet says or a theologin says- no matter what people will interpret it all so differently and eventually it ceases to have any meaning. Everything I was taught turns out to be wrong and it's good that I found it all out now- because I would have lived my life in ignorance had I not run into all these smart people like you. You know you are right- and I thought I was was right once too- but in the end- what does it even matter? Have pride. Don't have pride. Pride is a sin. Pride is good. Sometimes. When I say it is. And I GIVE UP! You win! Now you can glow with the pride of knowing that you have shown me the truth.
//end of rant
PS- Sorry for derailing the thread KimberlyAnn
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sailgirl7, I am very much enjoying your replies on this thread! Thanks for your participation.
It's past my girls' bed time and I still have two hold-outs, so I'll go read them a story and tuck them in and see if I can't think of something clever to add to this discussion!
KimberlyAnn wrote:Sailgirl7, I am very much enjoying your replies on this thread! Thanks for your participation.
It's past my girls' bed time and I still have two hold-outs, so I'll go read them a story and tuck them in and see if I can't think of something clever to add to this discussion!
KA
KA-
Thanks- I'm sorry for going off topic so much- I really am no good at this.
I have two hold-outs as well- so I should go do the same!
You are the Relief Society of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is no other organization to equal it. Walk with pride. Hold your heads up. Work with diligence. Do whatever the Church asks you to do. Pray with faith. You may never know how much good you accomplish. Someone’s life will be blessed by your effort.
Gordon B. Hinckley, “To the Women of the Church,” Liahona, Nov 2003, 113–15
If you read my other posts in the thread you will understand what I am saying.
Why Me just taught me that it's okay to have pride.
It's called sarcasm- but you have to read everything else I wrote first.