Brigham's Brew Root Beer
Alcohol Free - Our "Old World Style" root beer is hand-crafted using only the finest natural ingredients. Smooth and creamy with notes of vanilla, this tasty elixir is sure to please everyone in the family. Sweetened with Pure Utah Honey.
Available in draught only.
Polygamy Porter wrote:OMG! Check out the new brew from Wasatch Beers:Brigham's Brew Root Beer
Alcohol Free - Our "Old World Style" root beer is hand-crafted using only the finest natural ingredients. Smooth and creamy with notes of vanilla, this tasty elixir is sure to please everyone in the family. Sweetened with Pure Utah Honey.
Available in draught only.
My good hell woman, what are you a nationally renowned debater on this stuff and you feel the need to defend your good name?Jersey Girl wrote:Debate what ever you like.
I don't give a rat's hairy ass.
I am not here to debate, I am here to piss off Mormons. Debate implies I agree with something from the deceived and deceivers.
If you are a 100% Mormon I pity your ignorance. If you are not a 100% Mormon who identifies as a member I call you a hypocrite. Most of the Mormons on this board are hypocrites.
I really don't have anything I'd like to debate or discuss with you Jgirl. NOTHING PERSONAL, k?
Time for another Black Butte Porter :)
I know you're not here to debate or discuss, Porter. For some reason, whenever I respond congenially or in defense of a TBM on this board, you trot out the "Jersey Girl doesn't know anything about Mormonism" pony.
Believe it or not, Porter, the LDS boards that you know me from (which I doubt seriously that you have any memory of me at all except that you DO remember LSD and called for "her" when you started posting on this new board) aren't my "home" boards. Before you ever "laid eyes" on me, I spent years debating Mormonism online with the likes of Craig Criddle and others.
I'm going to cheat here and transfer some of my posts from "back in the day" regarding Evangelical Christianity vs Mormonism as Cult. I can actually debate them from and LDS perspective but heh, I'll give you the non-Walmart shopper version of Jersey Girl, okay?
I'll start with some general comments regarding Christian Cults.
Following is my position regarding the Christianity of Mormonism. I hope you will find it presented to your satisfaction and a good spring board for continuing discussion. I am going to use the Bible(KJV which is accepted by the LDS Church as scripture) and Mormon writings to discredit the claim that Mormonism is Christianity.
The Bible authors warn us via the words of Christ himself in Matthew 24: 24 "For there shall arise FALSE CHRISTS and FALSE PROPHETS, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible they shall deceive the very elect.
The Bible authors warn us in II Corinthians 11:4 "For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received, or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which yea have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."
The Bible authors warn us in Galations 1:8,9 "But though we, or AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN, preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again; If any man preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
I put forth to you Dan, that Mormonism is NOT Christianity. It is a Christian CULT. A Christian cult is, in my view, a religious system based on DECEPTION, a false view of God, a false view of Christ, that bases it's path to salvation on a system of works and score keeping APART from Jesus Christ to gain some type of after death experience APART from what is stated in the Bible.
The hallmark of Christian cults is that they are based on "ANOTHER REVELATION" or SOURCE OF SCRIPTURURAL AUTHORITY OTHER than the Bible. Mormons fall squarely into this category. They use the same outer wrappings, the same terminology, with a TOTALLY DIFFERENT definition and conotation.
They have a wrong view of eternal hell compared to what Jesus taught in the Bible. They have a FALSE characterization of the Jesus of the Bible, a FALSE characterization of the God of the Bible, they have a FALSE or COMPLICATED understanding of basic salvation of GRACE through FAITH as Jesus himself described in the Bible.
Christian cults typically have one key charismatic leader who was disillusioned with mainstream Christianity so much so that he or she created THEIR OWN doctrines and successfully got a group of people to rally around their cause. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young BOTH fit this description. It can be accurately stated that Brigham Young himself extended the spiritual concepts of Mormonism with his doctrine of exhaltation to godhood to the point where it completely DIVERTED from Christianity and became not an offshoot of Christianity, but a TOTALLY DIFFERENT RELIGION.
Christian cults use deception, sometimes use coercive tactics to control their congregations and keep the true beliefs and doctrines of their religion away from the average church person. The LDS Church is presently attempting to affilitate itself with mainstream Christianity in order to santize it's Non-Christian belief system in the public eye.
CS Lewis: "There are only two religions in the world. Christianity and Hinduism. One teaches that we are separate from the one true God by sin, and God became a man to die for our sins; the OTHER teaches that men are not separated from God but that each person has within himself the POWER to over come evil and thus BECOME GOD OR AT LEAST *A* GOD."
We shall see, where Mormonism falls into the above description as I post regarding the separate claims I made above. And you can decide for yourself, whether you were involved in Christianity or something else.
GOD:Mormonism vs CHRISTIANITY
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses,
vol.10, page 223.
"God was once a man on earth, with a physical body of flesh and bone who through spiritual development became the God that we know--an exalted man who is now in charge of our planet."
"The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming gods like himself. We are created to become gods like unto our father in heaven...Those who attain exhaltation are gods".
What the Bible says about God:
Psalm 93:2 God is eternal
1John 5:20 God is true
Genesis 1:1 God is self existent
Deut. 6:4 God is one (monotheistic)
Isaiah 44:6 God is First and Last,apart from him there is no other
Isaiah 43: 10-11 Before me there was no other God formed
John 4:23-24 God is spirit
Romans 11:33-36 No one knows the mind of the Lord
Isaiah 42:8 God will not share glory
1Timothy 1:17 God is eternal, immortal, invisible
Malachi 3:6 God does not change
Jeremiah 10:10 God is the true God, the eternal God
Numbers 23:19 God is not man or son of man
Christ: Mormonism vs CHRISTIANITY
Jospeh Smith, History of the Church
vol 6, pgs 408-409
"I am the only MAN that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no MAN ever did such a work as I! The followers of Jesus ran from him; but the Latter Day Saints they never ran away from me yet"
Mormonism: Jesus is the literal offspring of a flesh and bone God who had sexual relations with Mary. The Virgin Birth is rejected.
Mormonism: Jesus is not the same person as God, but a separate person and NOT EQUAL with God.
Mormonism: Jesus had a BEGINNING, he ATTAINED godhood.
Mormonism: Jesus was our elder brother who was the brother of Lucifer.
What the Bible says about Jesus:
Luke 1: 34-37 The Holy SPIRIT came upon Mary
Genesis 1:26 Jesus was involved in creation
John 1:1-18 Christ was God
Colossians 1:15-17 Christ was BEFORE all things
John 10:30-33 Jesus is God
John 17:1-5, 20, 21 Jesus shared glory with God BEFORE the world began
Phillipians 2:6-8 Christ was God
Colossians 2:9 Christ is God
John 8:23 Jesus is not from this world
John 10:30 "I and my Father are ONE"
Further warnings:
2 John 7-10
"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is COME in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an ANTI-CHRIST. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hat not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and BRING NOT THIS DOCTRINE, recieve him not into your house, neither bid him God speed."
MAN: Mormonism vs CHRISTIANITY
Joseph Fielding Smith, Former LDS President
"Doctrines of Salvation"
vol 1, pages 113-115
"The fall of man came as a blessing in disguise. I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as sin, nor do I accuse Adam of sin. We can hardly look upon anyting resulting in such benefits as being a sin. Adam fell, but he fell in the right direction, toward the goal, he fell upward".
Mormonism: We are all uncreated "gods in embryo" who have been progessing eternally ypward in various forms and stages of ever-highter development in the spirit realh. The literal sons of "Mother and Father God", we are not born "gods" but we are requried to come to this earth to take on a physical body in order to prove ourselves "worthy" of godhood.
Mormonism: Satan TOLD THE TRUTH to Adam and Eve in the garden. Following Satan, instead of God, was a blessing.
What the Bible says about Man:
Genesis 1:27 Man was created in God's image, God created male and female
Psalm 8:5 God created man
Genesis 2:2-5 God created man
Romans 5:12 Adams one SIN brought death
Romans 3:23 Man is a sinner
Romans 3:24 Man is redeemed by GRACE through Jesus Christ
SALVATION: Mormonism vs CHRISTIANITY
Brigham Young, "Come unto Christ"
pages 125-132
"No man or woman in this age will ever enter into the Celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by Joseph Smith, it will be through his authority that he has received."
Mormonism: Jesus suffered for our sins in Gethsemane. He provided salvation CONDITIONAL on OBEDIENCE to the laws and ordinances of the LDS GOSPEL- baptism, temply worthiness, word of wisdom and temple sacraments.
Mormonism: Jesus death on the cross provided GENERAL SALVATION wherby we will be judged by our works.
Mormonism: Celestial marriage or sealing for "time and eterninty" in the temple is REQUIRED for exaltation.
What the Bible says about salvation:
John 14:6 Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father, eternity in heaven
Luke 20:35 There are no marriages in heaven
Ephesians 2:8-9 We are saved through GRACE, not of works
Romans 10:9-10 We are saved when we believe in Jesus and confess him as our Lord
Titus 3:5 He saved us not because of anything we have done. We
can't "earn" salvation.
Ephesians 1:7 We are redeemed through the blood of Christ
Romans 5:16 Grace is how we are saved, it is a FREE GIFT, it is GIVEN, is NOT EARNED.
2Cor 12:9 "My grace is SUFFICIENT for thee; for my strength is made perfect in weakness"
John 3:16 Whoever believes on Jesus Christ, that he is the son of God, sent to this earth to save, IS SAVED.
I found a checklist for cults by digging into rpcmans stuff:
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm
I'm going to try to c/p the list here. It was felt to be a good checklist since it's not directed at the Mormon church.
Checklist:
The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
The group is preoccupied with making money.
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
The group has a polarized us- versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members