Porter's Skepticism

[_Jersey Girl]

Me again

The following exchange took place on Eric's ex-Mormon mailing list.


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22 Characteristics of a Cult....
1. They have a persecution complex.
2. They claim to be the only true church.
3. They claim to have the only true prophets on the earth.
4. They challenge the infallibility of the Bible.
5. Some cults claim to be the true Israel.
6. They defy man, man is God or will become one.
7. They humanize God. They limit God to a body.
8. They all have a procedure by which they attack the deity of Jesus Christ.
9. They claim to have divine books. (Esoteric doctrines to be understood by them only in addition to or in place of the Bible).
10. They have unswerving loyalty to their leaders, one never questions leadership.
11. They have an elite society, they create a racist system, they may always have earthly temples where only a select few may go.
12. They have or have had abnormal sex practices. (celibacy, free sex, sex with their leader only, or polygamy).
13. They have good works as a means to gain salvation.
14. They claim that salvation and exaltation comes only through their organization.
15. They encourage their members not to read materials of the opposing views, materials that are not faith promoting.
16. Each cult is a financial empire and the myth must be promoted at all costs to keep the ninety % at the bottom from realizing they support the ten % at the top. They have doctrines of surrendering all worldly goods and lands to the organization. And/or they have a strong tithing law toward this end.
17. A subtle doctrine of the cults is the church state, their own, instituted some day in America. Millions of dollars are spent toward that goal, such as propaganda, lands, banks, t.v. stations, radio stations and other businesses.
18. They excommunicate or ban dissidents in order to keep and maintain control of doctrine, through patterns and requirements of the other followers.
19. They use deception in recruiting and fund raising.
20. They us secretiveness and vagueness regarding activites and beliefs.
21. They seperate recruits from family, friends and society. A change in personality or values is seen and substitution of the cult as the new family takes place. They call each other brother and sister.
22. They promote the goals of the group over the individual and approve unethical behavior while claiming goodness.

The above received the following response:
This list, or one very similar, was posted several months ago and drew a lot of objection, and, I think, rightly so. It is obviously a tailor-made list to make Mormonism out to be a cult, written by a Christian. (See esp. #6, 7, 11, 17). The list that was posted before had originated with an ex-mormon who became a devout Christian. The Christian bias of this list is apparent (esp. #3, 4, 13).

It weakens one's argument, IMHO, to use such a specific list. It is like Mormons who, when asked how to recognize the true church, would argue that "It must have a living prophet at its head, it must have been restored by a visitation from God himself, it must have the name of Jesus Christ, etc...." with no objective reason for those requirements except that they support one's argument.

Mormonism is a cult, but this test would not identify any group other than Mormonism as a cult.

A much better checklist, and one which can identify many other cults besides Mormonism, is here. It is based on extensive examination of many cults, not just Mormonism, and thus is much more valuable.

Richard Packham

[_Polygamy Porter]

Lets debate how long the family of Adam and Eve had to practice INCEST.

Perhaps that is why Cain killed Able? Because he got to do momma first? Hopefully it was before she turned 800.

[_Jersey Girl]

So, Porter, that's an example of what I used to do online in discussion. I put up my stuff and others would engage in debating me. Some are on this very board. As I stated twice already, I can also debate what I used to write from an LDS perspective.

Feel free to test me anytime you wish. If your only defense against my posting congenially to and about TBM's is to make stupid assertions with no proof or make trivial penis references, I can't help you with that.

Jersey Girl

[_Polygamy Porter]

Lets debate which type of Mormon magic garments are better.

One piece Jesus jammie jumpsuit or the split two piece?

The one piece make it hard to take a crap. You only have two choices, grab the ass flaps, pull em wide and TRY to keep fecal matter from getting on the flaps.

Some have reported that older Mormons believed that you should wear the one piece even while having sex. Easy for the guy, but again the flaps come into play for the lady...

Some even reported that the women would insist on wearing the one piece during child birth. The reasoning behind this was the baby "passing through the veil", with the crotch flaps being the opening in the veil..

The one piece did not have the ass or crotch flaps and therefore forces you to pull them down like gentile undies and remove them during sex and child birth.

[_Jersey Girl]

Porter,

I already know what you're capable of and the worth of your opinion. The next time you choose to run off at the keyboard, you're going to get a link to this thread and so will everyone else.

Cheers,
Jersey Girl

[_Polygamy Porter]

So, Porter, that's an example of what I used to do online in discussion. I put up my stuff and others would engage in debating me. Some are on this very board. As I stated twice already, I can also debate what I used to write from an LDS perspective.

Feel free to test me anytime you wish. If your only defense against my posting congenially to and about TBM's is to make stupid assertions with no proof or make trivial penis references, I can't help you with that.

Jersey Girl

You will never be able to debate with a Mormon perspective. You never saw your dad running around the house in the one piece garmies, you were never embarrassed when friends came over and saw the crap stains on your parents one piece garments hanging on the clothes line.

You never lived as a child immersed in Mormon theology. You were never asked if you had a problem with masturbating as a child. You never pantomimed your own bloody suicide in the Mormon temple. You never wore garments. You never faked giving a blessing. Your wedding day was not ruined by being forced to cover up your beautiful wedding dress with ugly rental temple crap. You never had your father feel your shoulder to see if you were wearing garments. Should I go on?

While you may be able to debate the theology, that is about it. You read about Mormonism. We lived it.

[_Polygamy Porter]

Porter,

I already know what you're capable of and the worth of your opinion. The next time you choose to run off at the keyboard, you're going to get a link to this thread and so will everyone else.

Cheers,
Jersey Girl

Again Jersey Girl, I don't give a flying rats ass what you think. Post what ever you like.

I will run off at the keyboard again. Link all you like.

[_Jersey Girl]

So, Porter, that's an example of what I used to do online in discussion. I put up my stuff and others would engage in debating me. Some are on this very board. As I stated twice already, I can also debate what I used to write from an LDS perspective.

Feel free to test me anytime you wish. If your only defense against my posting congenially to and about TBM's is to make stupid assertions with no proof or make trivial penis references, I can't help you with that.

Jersey Girl

You will never be able to debate with a Mormon perspective. You never saw your dad running around the house in the one piece garmies, you were never embarrassed when friends came over and saw the crap stains on your parents one piece garments hanging on the clothes line.

You never lived as a child immersed in Mormon theology. You were never asked if you had a problem with masturbating as a child. You never pantomimed your own bloody suicide in the Mormon temple. You never wore garments. You never faked giving a blessing. Your wedding day was not ruined by being forced to cover up your beautiful wedding dress with ugly rental temple crap. You never had your father feel your shoulder to see if you were wearing garments. Should I go on?

While you may be able to debate the theology, that is about it.

Sure, Porter, feel free to go on. None of the things that you mentioned have anything to do with a knowledge of Mormonism or Mormon History. I don't have to be a Mormon in order to be able to defend or oppose Mormonism. You have no idea at all what my experiences are with Mormonism or the Mormon community, or my life experiences at all. You have no idea how long I've interacted with LDS on the ground or online or what the nature of those interactions were or are now.

Why don't you say the same things to Bond and other never-Mo's as you do to me? Here, I'll give you a head start: It's because I openly oppose your treatment of TBM's on this board.

Next question?

[_Jersey Girl]

Porter,

I already know what you're capable of and the worth of your opinion. The next time you choose to run off at the keyboard, you're going to get a link to this thread and so will everyone else.

Cheers,
Jersey Girl

Again Jersey Girl, I don't give a flying rats ass what you think. Post what ever you like.

I will run off at the keyboard again. Link all you like.

I haven't linked a single thing, Porter.

[_Polygamy Porter]

Sure, Porter, feel free to go on. None of the things that you mentioned have anything to do with a knowledge of Mormonism or Mormon History.

Bingo.

Most active Mormons do not remain members based on knowledge of Mormonism or Mormon History. That is where you fall short.