LDS Sexuality

[_harmony]

I am going to try to discuss this with my wife and see what she thinks. I will ask her is her strong LDS belief is causing our marriage problems given that with those strong beliefs there is a chance of polygamy in the here after.

Jason, I like you, but if you think you know women feel about this, you're wrong. And if you think your wife is going to tell you, you're wrong. This is one of those subjects that women only talk to other women about. Men just don't get it, and it's too painful to try to explain. It's like trying to explain what "Green" is to a Martian. You have no frame of reference from which she can springboard her thoughts. You are never going to know what it's like to be female and LDS. There is simply nothing to compare it with. That no matter how good she is, no matter what she does, no matter how much she loves you, no matter how much you love her, there is no getting around Sec 132. Her powerlessness is something you will never experience. The depth of her despair is something she can never share. She won't tell you because she loves you, and it eats at her soul, even when she denies that it does.

I think the church has little concern for women. Or more accurately, the church cares for women so long as as they serve men.

I think you are flat out wrong if you believe this.

No, she's right, Jason. Our leaders could fix this, but they choose to not do so. It's a conscious thing, and God has nothing to do with it.

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason, I like you, but if you think you know women feel about this, you're wrong.

Since I am not a women you are probably correct. But I do know what some women have told me. Are you saying they are lying to me?

And if you think your wife is going to tell you, you're wrong. This is one of those subjects that women only talk to other women about.

I don't agree. I have always related to women. Maybe I have extra estrogen but I am more a touchy feely emotionall type of guy. But you might be rigth about my wife. She os more like a guy at times and is not into discussing feelings about things. He comments about plural marriage are "I am just glad we don't do it today."

Men just don't get it, and it's too painful to try to explain. It's like trying to explain what "Green" is to a Martian. You have no frame of reference from which she can springboard her thoughts.

You are mistaken here. I can imagine what it would be like if my wife had many husbands.

You are never going to know what it's like to be female and LDS.

That is true.

There is simply nothing to compare it with.

I think you may be a bit wrong there. But I do not care to go into detail as to why.

That no matter how good she is, no matter what she does, no matter how much she loves you, no matter how much you love her, there is no getting around Sec 132. Her powerlessness is something you will never experience. The depth of her despair is something she can never share. She won't tell you because she loves you, and it eats at her soul, even when she denies that it does.

Well she knows I think D&C 132 was not really from God. Maybe that helps her out. WHat she believes about it I am not sure.

I think the church has little concern for women. Or more accurately, the church cares for women so long as as they serve men.

I think you are flat out wrong if you believe this.

No, she's right, Jason. Our leaders could fix this, but they choose to not do so. It's a conscious thing, and God has nothing to do with it

Well we will have to disagree. I do believe the LDS Church cares for women.

[_harmony]

Well we will have to disagree. I do believe the LDS Church cares for women.

If they truly cared for LDS women, we'd see at least three changes:

1. they'd kick Sec 132 out of the canon.
2. they'd give women the priesthood.
3. they'd revise the POTF.

We don't see any of this, and quite frankly, I doubt we ever will, as long as our present leaders influence anyone. Which means women are going to have to wait at least 2 generations before there are any significant changes.

The damage done by these men is almost unthinkable.

[_Yoda]

Jason, I think that you SHOULD discusss this issue with your wife. I think that more LDS husbands should be more candid, and that this type of discussion should be going on.

If you're comfortable, I would love to hear what her perspective is.

1. they'd kick Sec 132 out of the canon.
2. they'd give women the priesthood.
3. they'd revise the POTF.

Harmony, I agree that the first two changes need to be made. What is POTF? I'm not familiar with that acronym.

[_Jason Bourne]

If they truly cared for LDS women, we'd see at least three changes:

1. they'd kick Sec 132 out of the canon.

I am ok with that.

2. they'd give women the priesthood.

Okay with that too.

3. they'd revise the POTF.

Could you tell my what things you think are troublesome in this document?

[_Jason Bourne]

[/quote]

Harmony, I agree that the first two changes need to be made. What is POTF? I'm not familiar with that acronym.[/quote]

Proclamation on the Family.

[_Some Schmo]

I wonder if masturbation is still specifically mentioned and questioned in the baptismal interview. I hated asking that quesiton. I guess I could ask the elders.

Go ask the online reps on the live chat at Mormon.org


MO: Hi may I help you?

AJ: Hi I would like to be baptized into your church but,

MO: (cutting you off) WOW! THAT IS GREAT!!! WHEN!?!?!?!?

AJ: Soon. I just have a question.

MO: OK!! ANYTHING!!

AJ: I follow all of the rules that the missionaries told me, no drink/smoke, no fornication, etc..

MO: OK!

AJ: But... I do like to masturbate. It is very enjoyable. I do it often, as a matter of fact, I am doing it now as I chat with you one hand is typing, the other is busy..

MO: *silence*

AJ: Will I be asked if I like to masturbate? by the way, I just finished... it was great! Do you like to masturbate?

MO: *silence*

AJ: HELLO?

MO: *silence*

AJ: I will assume you are masturbating and will wait for you to finish.

Holy crap, this made me laugh, particularly the last line. Just had to say that before continuing with the thread...

[_truth dancer]

Jason...

YOU are the one misreading my posts.

I have never said all women or most women.. .I make no claim to speak for all women and I have made it clear that I do know some women who like the idea of polygamy.

But I have had enough personal communications with MANY women who struggle with polygamy. The fact that you have not does not mean the women who come to me are not struggling.

You admit that it would be problematic if YOU had to share your wife with say, the men on the high council, but you do not seem to realize that this is exactly what women in the church face every day. Why WOULDN'T it be a problem. I think if you think about it, you would admit that the idea alone doesn't strengthen one's marriage.

I find it odd that you do not want to believe that there is a problem for some women.

You want to blame me for mentioning it as if I am fabricating concern, yet you admit it would be a concern if the situation were reversed.

I don't get it.

The fact that you seem unaware that there are problems means either you do not want to hear or you are not listening.

The fact that you admit it would be a problem for you but don't see how it is a problem for others just baffles me.

And harmony is right... if the church cared they would do something about it.

~dancer~


Add on: My last post on the Responsibility thread speaks to women who accept polygamy.

[_Jason Bourne]

YOU are the one misreading my posts.

I have never said all women or most women.. .I make no claim to speak for all women and I have made it clear that I do know some women who like the idea of polygamy.

I know. You say MANY, which means A LOT.

But I have had enough personal communications with MANY women who struggle with polygamy. The fact that you have not does not mean the women who come to me are not struggling.

How many is many?

You admit that it would be problematic if YOU had to share your wife with say, the men on the high council, but you do not seem to realize that this is exactly what women in the church face every day.

In some not so sure other life maybe. But hey, you misread me now. I agree this is a problem or can be and I am all for doing away with it.

Why WOULDN'T it be a problem. I think if you think about it, you would admit that the idea alone doesn't strengthen one's marriage.

I think in every day real life is is not really dwelt upon for most men or women in the Church.

I find it odd that you do not want to believe that there is a problem for some women.

I find it odd that you think that is what I said. I agree that is and can be. But MANY having MAJOR marital issues over it? I could be wrong.

You want to blame me for mentioning it as if I am fabricating concern, yet you admit it would be a concern if the situation were reversed.

Nope. It is your style. When one reads that you sense that MANY are STRUGGLING with MARITAL PROBLEMS, it makes it look like this is without question a HUGE issue. I am asking you to document it. Your discussions with what 5, 10 20 a 100 women about this...would be nice to know? Also, are the women like minded on the same issues as you, are that very active and very solid and so forth. Sensing that many women have this issue and extrapolating it into a big problem is what I think I see you doing and what I object to.

The fact that you seem unaware that there are problems means either you do not want to hear or you are not listening.

Did I say that?

The fact that you admit it would be a problem for you but don't see how it is a problem for others just baffles me.

I did not say that.

And harmony is right... if the church cared they would do something about it.

Maybe, maybe not. You both are pretty like minded and so see things the same way. I think some other opinions from more conservative LDS women would be in order to determine this.

But hey, I do not like plural marriage and were I able I would do away with it. I think it was a big ugly mistake. I am sure is disturbed some LDS women, maybe a lot, and maybe some marriages are harmed by it and maybe others are not. I do not know how many.. nor do you really.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Jason,

OK, so you DO see it as a problem, you do realize this belief in polygamy can harm marriages, you admit if the roles were reversed you would have difficulty, but you don't think it is as big or as serious an issue as do I. Is that about right?

I have discussed polygamy with well over a hundred strong believing women in the church. I have encountered exactly three women (and a handful online), who are OK with polygamy. All three did not like their marriages or sex and would rather not be with their husbands much at all.

I would guess, 90% of women in the church have concerns about polygamy based on my conversations and discussions with strong, believing members of the church.

Some of these women have very serious issues that create difficulties in their relationship, others try not to think about it or hope they will not have to be a part of it but there seems to be a lot of fear and sorrow associated with it.

No I haven't polled every woman in the church, but I have had enough women talk to me about the pain to know it is a problem for many.

Of course most people go throughout their day .... we manage, we cope, and we try not to think about those horrible, sickening things that may lie ahead. Nevertheless, as you yourself acknowledge, the very thought is disturbing.

I hold to the opinion that the belief that a woman is going to have to share her husband and become one of many wives is destructive to a marriage and sexual intimacy. I do not see how it could be otherwise.

~dancer~