Nibley -- Again

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_Doctor Steuss
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Post by _Doctor Steuss »

Thank you so much Blixa!

From a portion you quoted: “It is enough for most of us that they are there.”

What the junk kind of logic is this?!?!? Oi vey. I see what you’re saying though in regards to his “maneuvering.” It’s kind of like:

Professor: Please examine “A.”

Nibley: We can see from “B,” “C,” “D,”…... “Z” that there is strong parallels to item #1. If only you scholars would acknowledge such.

His analysis of the other items is fascinating, and enlightening (and in a way, awe-inspiring that the hombre knew so stinkin’ much), but in the final analysis you just sit back and think to yourself… “you still didn’t examine ‘A.’”

I don't know though... I still respect the man imensly. He was more than I'll ever hope to be.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

Doctor Steuss wrote:He was more than I'll ever hope to be.


Eh. You're young, yet.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Chap
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Post by _Chap »

Doctor Steuss wrote:Thank you so much Blixa!

He was more than I'll ever hope to be.


More what? It matters. Please specify.
_Daniel Peterson
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Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Blixa wrote:Well, what's the other side, then?

The other side is still being made, but has already been presented in at least a score of various publications.

The errors in the treatment above include even how long Nibley had been seriously concerned with Egyptological matters. As John Gee has documented, Nibley was reading seriously on Egypt and the Egyptian language even back in his youth in California, when he spent a great deal of time on the subject with what was available in the main Los Angeles Public Library. I myself can testify from direct personal experience that he knew Egyptian very well in 1971-1972, when I studied with him. I later learned that we went through Gardiner's standard Egyptian grammar twice as fast as the equivalent class at Harvard did. He was terrifying.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Sure looks damning. Good thing there's only one side to the story!


Blixa is not me, Daniel. You don't have to treat her with disdain. Her PhD is in history (If I recall correctly) and she's a professor on sabbatical to write a book about early Utah history. (Blixa, if I got that wrong, please set the record straight. Daniel keeps a special tone in his arsenal, just for me, but I wouldn't want you to be hit by it).

Blixa... meet Daniel. Daniel... meet Blixa. Now Daniel, please explain the other side of the story in your estimation.
_Daniel Peterson
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Post by _Daniel Peterson »

harmony wrote:Blixa is not me, Daniel. You don't have to treat her with disdain.

I agree that the distinction is important.

harmony wrote:Daniel keeps a special tone in his arsenal, just for me, but I wouldn't want you to be hit by it.

The odds of that are very low. Thus far, I've seen nothing from her to suggest that she imagines herself to be God at the last judgment.

harmony wrote:Now Daniel, please explain the other side of the story in your estimation.

The other side is still being made, but has already been presented in at least a score of various publications.

The errors in the treatment above include even how long Nibley had been seriously concerned with Egyptological matters. As John Gee has documented, Nibley was reading seriously on Egypt and the Egyptian language even back in his youth in California, when he spent a great deal of time on the subject with what was available in the main Los Angeles Public Library. I myself can testify from direct personal experience that he knew Egyptian very well in 1971-1972, when I studied with him. I later learned that we went through Gardiner's standard Egyptian grammar twice as fast as the equivalent class at Harvard did. He was terrifying.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

harmony wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:Sure looks damning. Good thing there's only one side to the story!


Blixa is not me, Daniel. You don't have to treat her with disdain. Her PhD is in history (If I recall correctly) and she's a professor on sabbatical to write a book about early Utah history. (Blixa, if I got that wrong, please set the record straight. Daniel keeps a special tone in his arsenal, just for me, but I wouldn't want you to be hit by it).

Blixa... meet Daniel. Daniel... meet Blixa. Now Daniel, please explain the other side of the story in your estimation.


Well, not entirely correct. I'm a professor of literature with current interests in western americana. I am researching a book, but it would be more accurately described as cultural studies and it does concern the period of the "Mormon reformation." Early stages.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

Daniel Peterson wrote:The errors in the treatment above include even how long Nibley had been seriously concerned with Egyptological matters.


Thanks for this correction.

I didn't intend for my post to comment on the ongoing evaluation of Nibley's entire scholarly oevre, but just its use as an apologetic weapon in what always struck me as a strategy of obsfucation. But the bit quoted from the final installment of the Improvement Era series suggested something more like a deliberate lack of accuracy, to put it delicately. That's why it stood out to me.

I had supposed "the other side" would be a fuller explanation of how his characterization of scholarly study as shoddy or wrong was correct (perhaps you meant that and I misunderstood), or a better contextual interpretation of the quote itself.

Either way, I would never argue that the man wasn't erudite.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

Daniel Peterson wrote: How does this:
The errors in the treatment above include even how long Nibley had been seriously concerned with Egyptological matters. As John Gee has documented, Nibley was reading seriously on Egypt and the Egyptian language even back in his youth in California, when he spent a great deal of time on the subject with what was available in the main Los Angeles Public Library. I myself can testify from direct personal experience that he knew Egyptian very well in 1971-1972, when I studied with him. I later learned that we went through Gardiner's standard Egyptian grammar twice as fast as the equivalent class at Harvard did. He was terrifying.


impact this:
Klaus Baer, associate professor of Egyptology at the University of Chicago, to examine and translate the apparent source of the Book of Abraham for the independent Mormon journal, Dialogue. Baer identified the text as the ancient Egyptian "Breathing Permit of Hor." It read, "Here begins the Breathing Permit, which Isis made for her brother Osiris in order to . . . revive his corpse, and to make his body young again."


1. What class did you take from Nibley? Egyptian grammar?
2. Is going through a text twice as fast equivalent to learning twice as much? Or does that mean you simply skimmed it, while the Harvard class studied it thoroughly, even though they went slower?
3. How does your experience in class with Nibley in any way impact what Baer (an honest to goodness professor of Egyptology) says about the text?
_Daniel Peterson
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Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Blixa wrote:I had supposed "the other side" would be a fuller explanation of how his characterization of scholarly study as shoddy or wrong was correct (perhaps you meant that and I misunderstood), or a better contextual interpretation of the quote itself.

That is, in fact, the other side. But it would take many hours for me to flesh it out. I don't have it at my fingertips, it's not a primary interest of mine, and it's already available in scattered partial printed treatments (e.g., among other places, in Boyd Petersen's award-winning biography of Nibley). So I used the question of how long Nibley had been studying Egypt and how well he knew Egyptian as . . . well, a synecdoche.
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