Raising up Seed... (sigh)

[_truth dancer]

Every time I hear the justification for polygamy, that God needed to raise up seed, I find myself in wonder.

Here we have the God of the universe, who can create anything, who made galaxies and solar systems, and created life, in all its varieties, and the only way "He" can get more good people on the eart is to command people to engage in what "He' has described as an abomination?

You have got to be kidding!

First, the birth rate actually went down during polygamy. Believers will reply that "raising seed," was not just about offspring but about offspring being born into the best families, (as if all those young men who couldn't find a woman to marry were not righteous).

So, God couldn't have the mothers of these great families just have twins?

Why not help out the less righteous to be more righteous? "He" certainly has done that before... (think Paul, for one examle).

How about giving the children born into the less fabulous familes an extra blessing or two so they become more righteous?

The infant mortality rate was quite high... why not lower it? This would be nothing for the God of the universe.

The idea that the only way, or the chosen way for God to increase righteous people on the earth was to command such a cruel and disgusting practice would be laughable if it wasn't so horrific.

~dancer~

[_Yoda]

Great points, TD! We're on the same page with this one.

Whenever this is brought up, the standard "apologist" answer seems to be "we can't understand God's ways right now. They will make more sense in the next life."

Meaning---your points make perfectly logical sense, and no one has been able to come up with a rebuttal to what you, and the rest of us have been saying.

Any takers on this from the Jedi Masters out there?

[_barrelomonkeys]

A man started a thread on MAD a month or so ago about how wonderful polygamy was. I came in and refuted his "facts" in how men were more violent in marriage and other justifications for men to have more than one wife. Unfortunately in a fit I went in and erased almost all of my posts that I'd made during that month or so. >:(

Anyway, a lot of the justification just fell flat for me. What was most surprising was that he was advocating polygamy, as well as another poster that jumped in (a woman) and I was under the impression that practicing LDS were not suppose to advocate for polygamy. Am I mistaken?

[_Inconceivable]

It takes more then being the donor to raise of a righteous family.

I think of the 5 children my bride and I have and are raising. The world isn't really much different than it was then.
I work a 12 hour day many times. There are days that I don't see my family at all (and there are times it shows).

The children need to connect with their mother and father. Back in the day, these clowns were being sent on
missions half way around the world, serving as bishops and area reps, founding new towns, courting and having
the strength at the end of the day to have relations with their wives. Did I mention making a living?

Makes me wonder where they "spent their strength".

Did Brigham Young even remember anyones birthday? I see a lot of crappy, neglected kids that were at least taught
to lie about what their parents were up to when the law came looking for their dad.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Truth Dancer, I've always wondered, why, if raising seed were so important to God, he didn't make Adam more than one wife? I don't believe the Old Testament is literal or even the word of God, but Mormons do, so I ask them: If there ever were a time when God needed to "raise seed" wouldn't it have been at the beginning? There was a huge, empty earth to fill with people, yet God made one man and one woman and declared it "good".

It's clear in my mind that polygamy is a man-made institution.

KA

[_Yoda]

What was most surprising was that he was advocating polygamy, as well as another poster that jumped in (a woman) and I was under the impression that practicing LDS were not suppose to advocate for polygamy. Am I mistaken?

Let me guess. It was either Charity, Deborah, or Nighthawke, who jumped on the polygamy bandwagon over there. They are the three polygamy advocates on FAIR/MAD.

Practicing LDS should be against practicing polygamy at the present time, because the practice violates the law of the land, and the mainfesto for ceasing the practice is in place. Plural marriage, however, is considered an "eternal law" based on current doctrine in the LDS canon, namely the 132nd section of the Doctrine and Covenants. This is where that fine line is blurred.

Check out the polygamy thread in the Celestial Forum for more details:

Polygamy Thread

[_Dr. Shades]

So, God couldn't have the mothers of these great families just have twins?

An EXCELLENT point!

The infant mortality rate was quite high... why not lower it? This would be nothing for the God of the universe.

Yet another excellent point!

Truth Dancer, I've always wondered, why, if raising seed were so important to God, he didn't make Adam more than one wife? I don't believe the Old Testament is literal or even the word of God, but Mormons do, so I ask them: If there ever were a time when God needed to "raise seed" wouldn't it have been at the beginning? There was a huge, empty earth to fill with people, yet God made one man and one woman and declared it "good".

A third most excellent point.

I'm going to have to remember these.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Another point, why not let the young men who are virile (and no doubt up to the task of raising up seed) raise up seed with the young women. Why put a bunch of young women with one older man and expect him to do much at all? As a matter of fact, why not put ALL of the women with the young men. That would have taken care of it!

[_truth dancer]

Another point, why not let the young men who are virile (and no doubt up to the task of raising up seed) raise up seed with the young women. Why put a bunch of young women with one older man and expect him to do much at all? As a matter of fact, why not put ALL of the women with the young men. That would have taken care of it!

The believers stance is (something like), God needed the "seed' of the righteous men to procreate offspring that had this "seed." As if there was something special in the DNA. Actually, at the time, (and still alive and well today for some believers) is the idea that Joseph Smith (and other churh leaders) was a literal descendant of Jesus Christ. Sort of along the lines of the seed of Abraham thing. (smile). The idea that there is some sort of special blood (literally) that specifies the elite and chosen of God. Those believers who are not literal descendants of Abraham are adopted into the tribe and their blood changes.

But back to the point, church leaders (and friends) considered themselves the more righteous and therefore entitled to have all the girls and women.

The young men were left without partners.

Polygamy is about reverting to a very animalistic primitive practice where men become sperm donors not fathers. The only difference between males of other species who inseminate multiple females is that typically the females (even if they attach to one male) are not bound to one male. The female animals had it better!

~dancer~

[_Seven]

Every time I hear the justification for polygamy, that God needed to raise up seed, I find myself in wonder.

Here we have the God of the universe, who can create anything, who made galaxies and solar systems, and created life, in all its varieties, and the only way "He" can get more good people on the eart is to command people to engage in what "He' has described as an abomination?

I have wondered this too. Why would God need to command righteous people to massacre innocent women and children to further His work either? He is all powerful and miraculously gave a child to Abraham and Sarah in her very old age. He can wipe out wicked people if He so desires without commanding good men to murder as He has done before in the Bible.

Now in the Book of Mormon, the most correct book on the earth, we see monogamy as the way God raises righteous seed unto Him.
Why is it that all the righteous men in the Book of Mormon were monogamists? If there was ever a time (besides Adam and Eve) when polygamy would have been needed to raise up seed unto God, why not when He commanded Nephi and his brothers to take wives and raise seed?


How can polygamy be an abomination through the Book of Mormon and then suddenly become restored as a necessary ordinance, highest principle, required for exaltation? D & C 132 should be removed.