Does the teaching method in LDS Primary equal brainwashing?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Tarski wrote:The lyrics are full of mother goose nonsense and demands for conformity and the relinguishing of ethical, moral and life-meaning decision-making responsibility to a universal leader "the prophet". The more I think about it, the more I hate it!

Yeah, the whole world should just follow the cosmic decrees of one old white dude---riiiiight.

PS, "That's what Jonah learned deep down inside the whale." ???????????


My point is that the lyrics reflect Old Testament prophets which you will be taught about in any Christian religion.

Again, I understand where you're coming from, but I think your beef is, or should be, more with organized religion in general, based on how you view things, than the Mormon Church, in particular. In the ways you have mentioned, I don't think that the LDS Church is any worse than other churches in teaching gospel principles to children. Again, I am a firm believer that it is a parent's responsibility to stay involved in what their kids are being taught....and...intervene if necessary.
_Bond...James Bond
_Emeritus
Posts: 4627
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:49 am

Post by _Bond...James Bond »

Yeah.....but all organized religions brainwash. The LDS Church is probably just worst than most about it (not to mention the lengths you have to go to be a "good" LDS person).
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Who Knows wrote:I knooooow my faaatherrrr liiiiives,
And luuuves meeee tooooo...

Follow the prophet,
Follow the prophet,
Follow the prophet,
Don't go astraaaaay...

Now we know that we must also
Witness faith in Jesus’ word,
Be baptized to show obedience,
As was Jesus Christ, our Lord...

Before I take the sacrament, I sit so quietly.
I know that Jesus came to earth and died for me....

I’m glad to pay a tithing, one-tenth of all I earn;
It’s little when I think of all God gives me in return....

Search, ponder, and pray
Are the things that I must do.
The Spirit will guide, and, deep inside,
I’ll know the scriptures are true....

Brainwashing. Pure and simple.


WK, how are the words to these songs any different than hundreds of songs written by various religious composers sung throughout the world?

As a teacher and a student of music, I fail to see the difference.
_Some Schmo
_Emeritus
Posts: 15602
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Post by _Some Schmo »

Choose the Right!

Choose the right (that is, all that we have told you).
What is right? Anything we’ve said before.
And the light is anything that we’ve sold you,
You are right only if you are a bore.
Choose the right, Choose the right,
Let dogma mark the way before,
In your fright, choose the right
And God won’t spank you evermore.

Choose the right! Yes we know it’s an obsession
That we like, every single waking hour,
We’re uptight, bordering on bad depression,
Because we had no need for power.
Choose the right, Choose the right,
Let dogma mark the way before,
In your fright, choose the right
And God won’t spank you evermore.

Choose the right! Yeah, we know that it’s confusing,
You’re damn right, even though you feel a fool,
Not so bright, you accept all the abusing,
So much for the whole “Golden Rule.”
Choose the right, Choose the right,
Let dogma mark the way before,
In your fright, choose the right
And God won’t spank you evermore.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Bond...James Bond wrote:Yeah.....but all organized religions brainwash. The LDS Church is probably just worst than most about it (not to mention the lengths you have to go to be a "good" LDS person).


I'll buy that.

I think the "trick" is to allow yourself to think for yourself, and take away from whatever religion you choose, what works for you, and what is going to make your life positive. That's what I've tried to do, and that's what I've taught my kids to do.
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Some Schmo wrote:Choose the Right!

Choose the right (that is, all that we have told you).
What is right? Anything we’ve said before.
And the light is anything that we’ve sold you,
You are right only if you are a bore.
Choose the right, Choose the right,
Let dogma mark the way before,
In your fright, choose the right
And God won’t spank you evermore.

Choose the right! Yes we know it’s an obsession
That we like, every single waking hour,
We’re uptight, bordering on bad depression,
Because we had no need for power.
Choose the right, Choose the right,
Let dogma mark the way before,
In your fright, choose the right
And God won’t spank you evermore.

Choose the right! Yeah, we know that it’s confusing,
You’re damn right, even though you feel a fool,
Not so bright, you accept all the abusing,
So much for the whole “Golden Rule.”
Choose the right, Choose the right,
Let dogma mark the way before,
In your fright, choose the right
And God won’t spank you evermore.


LOL! Warn me before you do something like that! I spit Pepsi all over my screen!

I think we should have this added the the hymnal.

;)
_Who Knows
_Emeritus
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:09 pm

Post by _Who Knows »

liz3564 wrote:WK, how are the words to these songs any different than hundreds of songs written by various religious composers sung throughout the world?

As a teacher and a student of music, I fail to see the difference.


Because you're forcing agnostic kids to sing something over and over and over, beginning at the age of 18 months basically. You're making them grow up thinking the only way they can be happy, is by doing what the church/prophet says. You're making them grow up thinking that the only way they'll please their families is by doing what the church/prophet says. You're ingraining the LDS belief into their young, impressionable minds. You're teaching them that they 'know' certain things, which they obviously do not.

You really don't see it? (I agree that it's a problem with all religion, not just LDS).
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »


I'm not sure how this is considered "cult-like". They also hold up pictures of Jesus and other things pertaining to the Sharing Time lesson. It's simply a way to get the children involved with what is happening...a very common teaching technique. Obviously, if the lesson is about Joseph Smith or President Hinckley, then yes, these pictures will be utilized. However, most of the lessons in Sharing Time focus on simple principles of the gospel like baptism, acting like Jesus would act, being kind to one another, etc.


It is not cult like. It is called instruction and perhaps indoctrination. It is a choise to teach one's children what one believes. PP will leave that all to random chance for his kids.

Then the instructor would have the children repeat something along the lines of:

"I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of god"
"I know that Gordon B. Hinckley is a true prophet of god and speaks to god to tell us the right things to do. I will follow the counsel of the phophet...."

Other things that these 3-8 year olds are expected to repeat:

"I know that the CoJCoLDS is true"

"I know that the Book of Mormon is true"


In all of the years I have worked in Primary (and I'm old...43...and I've been playing the piano or involved in primary in some way since I was 15), I have never heard a Primary leader whisper to a child to say "I know the Church is true..." etc. I have heard a parent do it during a talk, etc. but not a leader.


This is becasue this never happens. It is another lie. PP is embellishing. Primary teachers and leaders do not stage mock testimony meetings.


If a parent takes it upon him/herself to have their child parrot things that they believe, then that is their choice.



Correct.

I know that the CoJCoLDS is true"

"I know that the Book of Mormon is true"

Every fast sunday, many of these children will rush up to the stand and litterally parrot off these same rote statements of knowledge. If they struggle, the parents will go up and whisper them in their ear.. HOW can any child KNOW anything about the prophetic abilities of men or if a church is divine?


I agree.


In all the FT meetings I have been in I may see on kid get up, maybe two and over the past number of years rarely any. The LDS leaders actually have discouraged small children bearing testimonies in FT meetings. But there is never a mass rush of children to bear testimony. Again PP is simply lying.



Is the above practices in LDS Primary considered brainwashing?


IF the situation is conducted in the exact format you personally have witnessed, then yes.


But it does not. PP is a liar. Call him on it.

However, I can tell you that having been in the Primary, and having been in on how the organization is supposed to function, I can tell you that your Ward Primary was making some serious mistakes.



No they were not. PP is making it up.
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Mercury wrote:"follow the prophet follow the prophet follow the prophet he knows the way follow the prophet follow the prophet follow the prophet he knows the way"

How is this not brainwashing?
]


THis is a song I would be happy to do away with.
_barrelomonkeys
_Emeritus
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:00 pm

Post by _barrelomonkeys »

This is sort of on topic. :)

Since the thread morphed into a discussion of hymns I thought I'd look at some online. I saw the Doxology listed

Praise God, from whom all blessings flow;
Praise him, all creatures here below;
Praise him above, ye heav’nly host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.


Is this something sung in the LDS Church?

reference

This is sung every single Sunday at a Methodist Church.
Post Reply