Missionaries living with members

[_ajax18]

I'm having a hard time coming to grips with this idea that seniority somehow is a fair and logical reason to not have to do any of the hard work and suffering.

Why don't we have the GAs start living with members instead of in $2 million condominiums or staying in 5 star hotels for that matter? What makes them so much better than everyone else?

In my mission I lived in an apartment without as much as a roof. Our MP lived in one of the most luxurious mansions I'd seen. Is this the order of things the way Jesus taught? It seemed like Jesus taught that while he was gretest, he lived the most meagerly while in life. He was the strongest so he stood up and took the hardest hit in life. Yet our leaders seem to exalt themselves in life as well as promising themselves that they will be exalted above all in the next life as well.

It's obvious to me that the real engine that makes the LDS church go is based on the suffering (both physical and emotional), sacrifices of the common every day foot soldier missionary, or nonpaid member doing his calling. Yet who is usually the most severely chastised and least respected by the Church? The GAs don't make the work go forward and neither do the MPs as far as I'm concerned. They're not doing the hard work. They deal with believers behind closed doors. They don't talk to nonbelievers, much less let the nonbeliever talk back.

The Brethren seem to have set themselves up like kings in every sense of the word. What bothers me most about this is that not only does it look unfair for now in life, but it also looks unfair in eternity if you listen to the Brethren preach very long. This all adds up to me to the idea that the Church is just a made up thing with men and all their weaknesses shining through in what little doctrine is preached or policies set.

It just doesn't strike me as very Christian at all.

[_barrelomonkeys]

You didn't have a roof on your apartment? Where was your mission?

[_harmony]

In my mission I lived in an apartment without as much as a roof. Our MP lived in one of the most luxurious mansions I'd seen.

You know how to make this all go away, ajax? For the members to demand that the books be open to the public. Let's see how the money is spent. Let's see how much goes to GA's. Let's see how much goes to rent for the MP's. Let's see how much goes to maintaining temples, church buildings, and stake centers, and how much goes to maintaining the conference center, the mall, the condominiums of the leaders.

Makes me think they're covering up something, when the books are closed. And yes, I pay tithing. I ought to be able to see where the money goes.

[_Jersey Girl]

On earth as it is in heaven.....

So long as you participate in a belief system that assigns rank to the after life, you're going to have the reflection of that mindset in THIS life.

But what do I know, eh?

Jersey "never-mo's don't know jack" Girl

[_ajax18]

In my mission I lived in an apartment without as much as a roof. Our MP lived in one of the most luxurious mansions I'd seen.

You know how to make this all go away, ajax? For the members to demand that the books be open to the public. Let's see how the money is spent. Let's see how much goes to GA's. Let's see how much goes to rent for the MP's. Let's see how much goes to maintaining temples, church buildings, and stake centers, and how much goes to maintaining the conference center, the mall, the condominiums of the leaders.

Makes me think they're covering up something, when the books are closed. And yes, I pay tithing. I ought to be able to see where the money goes.

Exactly, They're obviously hiding something. The only debate is over what it is they're hiding. Some things that they may be hiding seem not so bad, yet others seem like such blatant abuses of faithful members.

I often think of the scripture in Alma where Alma fires back that he's never received a senine for his religious labor, and that he's supported himself with his own hands. Are we really doing that nowadays? I think not. They're not just paying living expenses. It's a full blown career, and one of the best career paths I could think of, if you were lucky enough to get selected.

Just out of curiosity Harmony, Does it bother you that your tithing goes to support six figure GA salaries? Maybe it's just me, but when ecclesiastical jobs become the best paying jobs around, it really makes me suspicious of their true motives.

[_harmony]

I often think of the scripture in Alma where Alma fires back that he's never received a senine for his religious labor, and that he's supported himself with his own hands. Are we really doing that nowadays? I think not. They're not just paying living expenses. It's a full blown career, and one of the best career paths I could think of, if you were lucky enough to get selected.

Just out of curiosity Harmony, Does it bother you that your tithing goes to support six figure GA salaries? Maybe it's just me, but when ecclesiastical jobs become the best paying jobs around, it really makes me suspicious of their true motives.

They don't care who it bothers. The only way they're going to open the books is 1) if the government forces them to, or 2) if the members force them to. They aren't exactly honorable men in that regard. If they were, we'd have open books.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Ajax...

As I have mentioned many times, my difficulty with the church had really little to do with church history, the Book of Abraham, etc. etc.

It has more to do with my understanding, beliefs, and experiences of life, goodness, the divine...

For me, I see Jesus as a great example of releasing the need for power and authority... he taught on a hill, invited others to listen, had little possessions, focused on healing... so simple, pure, and filled with love.

The church OTOH, seemed opposite... all about power, money, appearances, elitism, authority, hierarchy, near worship of leaders, etc. etc. etc.

It just didn't seem to harmonize with what I felt Jesus taught and exemplified, (as best we have it), nor did it resonate with what I saw as holy.

I still, as always hold that the church may be the one and only true church of Jesus Christ... but it just doesn't seem like it to me.

~dancer!

[_Mercury]

On earth as it is in heaven.....

So long as you participate in a belief system that assigns rank to the after life, you're going to have the reflection of that mindset in THIS life.

But what do I know, eh?

Jersey "never-mo's don't know jack" Girl

Here we go again.

Jersey, you understand as much as any other outsider. But when Myself and others speak of the degredation and humilitaion of growing up in Mormonism you fail to relate. On ssues of doctrine you also come up short.

I do not want to get into another pissing contest. This issue comes down to my misunderstanding why you spend so much time for such a long period involving yourself on these boards.

Its not that I feel it is unjustified to hang around here its that I just don't get the motivation in your life.

[_ajax18]

I still, as always hold that the church may be the one and only true church of Jesus Christ... but it just doesn't seem like it to me.

And this raises another issue, Should we just chalk up the injustice that we see to the fact that anytime you have human beings running an institution abuse of power will occur. Take Jim and Tammy Baker for example. My grandmother gave them money and she didn't have much money. Of course the scandal came out and one of my aunts road my grandmother pretty hard about it. Grandma's reply was that it didn't matter what these people did with the money, but that she gave the money in good faith.

Then I've heard some rebut that one has to be a good steward with his money. So how am I going to do that in the LDS church? What do we really know? I have nothing now, but when and if I do I'll have extended family who desperately need help, my own debts and bills etc. Funding the GAs five star hotel lifestyle, paying lawyers to fight cases to keep the Church from having to disclose its finances doesn't seem like good stewardship to me.

They say it's God's money. Will why is God so much more generous with the GAs than he is with the common man? Is this God, a being who keeps socking it to the masses unmercifully, and exalting a select few, both temporally and in the life to come? I find it not only difficult to endure this during the present time, but difficult to swallow the belief system that follows with it, specifically the part that says, "We each have a different mission in life so whether you lived a comfortable life as a GA or were the poor soul scraping to get by and paying tithes to support the GA, you both will have the same reward in the next life." If God is fair, this cannot be true.

[_Mercury]

Your words ring very true Ajax. I find it evil to live off the spoils of a false authority and milk the bank accounts of so many individuals who are suckered into the game early in Primary.