liz3564 wrote:PP, Merc, and rcrockett have called out Jason, Harmony, and myself on multiple occasions for being hypocritical in posting here and openly sharing concerns we feel about certain Church tenets.
I ask again...How is this hypocritical?
Have you never belonged to an organization where you didn't agree with everything that went on?
One simple question and I swear I will never speak of you being hypocritical again. Please wave this post at me as a sign indicating my ignorance.
Do you pay tithing on money that you earn? Furthermore do you see contributing financially to an institution that you see as twisted but comfortable to be an act of hypocrisy?
Its not the stuff I don't agree with Liz, its the shadowy bits in-between the walls that scare the hell out of me.
liz3564 wrote:PP, Merc, and rcrockett have called out Jason, Harmony, and myself on multiple occasions for being hypocritical in posting here and openly sharing concerns we feel about certain Church tenets.
I ask again...How is this hypocritical?
Have you never belonged to an organization where you didn't agree with everything that went on?
One simple question and I swear I will never speak of you being hypocritical again. Please wave this post at me as a sign indicating my ignorance.
Do you pay tithing on money that you earn? Furthermore do you see contributing financially to an institution that you see as twisted but comfortable to be an act of hypocrisy?
Its not the stuff I don't agree with Liz, its the shadowy bits in-between the walls that scare the hell out of me.
OK, I am a literary sap. so what?
I contribute therefore I can complain when the books aren't open.
As long as you aren't the sap of a tree, it's all good.
harmony wrote:I contribute therefore I can complain when the books aren't open.
As long as you aren't the sap of a tree, it's all good.
Harm, your voice is not being heard. Why stay with an institution in which you have no ownership? If you were born male you would have a chance at a voice. Do you keep telling yourself that one day there will be female bishops? What if the Relief Society AND the High Priests had a stake in the process? What of the first woman Seventy? When will she arrive? I welcome these things. It will be a sign that there is true ability to change.
Jack: I had it all. I had a stereo that was very decent, a wardrobe that was getting very respectable. I was close to being complete. . . . Tyler: We're consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra. Jack: Martha Stewart. Tyler: (bleep) Martha Stewart! Martha's polishing the brass on the Titanic. It's all going down, man!
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
rcrocket wrote:I think that you fully understand my position on hypocrisy but you choose to ignore it and formulate your own version of it.
It is not hypocritical to openly oppose an organization of which you are a member to induce change. Or to learn. Or to flush out hidden meaning. Or whatever. (Whether the organization permits such dissent is another matter, but that matter is unrelated to hypocrisy.)
But "openly" is the key. Hypocrisy arises when you say one thing in one venue and say another in a different venue. Or do one thing in one venue and do a different thing in a different venue. Jesus condemned hypocrisy more than any other sin, a detail I find interesting about the New Testament. I really suspect that few posters on this board read their New Testament.
As long as you act consistent with your beliefs in all venues, you are not a hypocrite.
But, if you use the Internet as a place to vent anonymously where you wouldn't do it using your own name, you are a vile hypocrite. You will certainly stand condemned in the same fashion as the Pharisees were; they will burn in hell and so will you, maybe. I'm not your judge. Combined with personal attacks against people with real names, be it Gordon B. Hinckley, or Boyd K. Packer, or Robert D. Crockett, not only are you a hypocrite you are a coward. "You" speaking generically and not necessarily you personally.
I see many people on this board who admit to being good members of the Church; admitting home teachers, and keeping their names on the records of the church when the things they say on this board would get them de-admitted. The only thing that protects them is the anonymity.
It is an insufficient argument to say that the Internet facilitates anonymity so there isn't any harm in doing what everybody else does. Well, darkness facilitates rapists; masks facilitate bank robbers; copy machines facilitate counterfeiters; telephone poles in the old day facilitated the posting of defamatory material, and so forth. Just because the medium exists doesn't mean that the wrong can be justified. Best to stop posting and keep your feelings to yourself than be one person in your ward and with your spouse and a different person on the internet where you can do real damage to the mission of the Church by your continued mocking. "You," generically, not "you" personally. Don't come back to me and challenge me to show where in the past you've made hypocritical posts; I have no interest in doing so.
But, your continued re-casting of the issue of hypocrisy to merely one of free speech to challenge an organization I think is supercilious. The more you do that, the more you will confuse and persuade the stupid, so have at it.
And don't come back to me and tell me to go on some other board and deride the faithful members of the Church who also post anonymously. Again, you just want to confuse things. Although I do not admire anonymity in any form, if you say one thing with your public face and the same thing with your anonymous face, you are not a hypocrite.
So, let me suggest that if you (generically) have any integrity and personal character at all, and want to post vicious things against the Church, then resign. If you want to post vicious things against living people, use your real name. But, you (you, personally) know what? Personal character and integrity is sharply wanting on this board.
Jason Bourne wrote:However, even Pres. Hinckley has said the members are free to believe and hold differing opinions about things LDS as long as they do not go preach it publicly.
Exactly.
And both of you have spoken PUBLICLY on this board about your differing opinions concerning things LDS.
I think it's ridiculous to believe you have to act and say the exact same things in every venue. PP, if you agree with his statement I'm pretty sure you're a hypocrite if you don't go to work and act like you do here.
Well if crock is going to act like judge/jury....what is your position regarding ex-mos who pretend to be someone other than who and what they are...who make calls to the Mormon.org chat feature just to screw with the folks who man the "lines"?
Crock? What say you?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
barrelomonkeys wrote:I think it's ridiculous to believe you have to act and say the exact same things in every venue. PP, if you agree with his statement I'm pretty sure you're a hypocrite if you don't go to work and act like you do here.
Same for you Mercury.
Well, silly sally, I do goto work.
I work as an engineer and can vouch for Merc.
Put the blindfold back and and keep stabbing in the dark...
Jersey Girl wrote:Well if crock is going to act like judge/jury....what is your position regarding ex-mos who pretend to be someone other than who and what they are...who make calls to the Mormon.org chat feature just to screw with the folks who man the "lines"?
Crock? What say you?
I do that because they continue to f_k with my neighbors and coworkers.
When they stop pretending to be representatives of Christ and start telling the truth that they are nothing more than salemen for LDS Inc, I will stop f___ing with those twits at moron.org.
harmony wrote:I contribute therefore I can complain when the books aren't open.
As long as you aren't the sap of a tree, it's all good.
Harm, your voice is not being heard. Why stay with an institution in which you have no ownership? If you were born male you would have a chance at a voice. Do you keep telling yourself that one day there will be female bishops? What if the Relief Society AND the High Priests had a stake in the process? What of the first woman Seventy? When will she arrive? I welcome these things. It will be a sign that there is true ability to change.
You don't know that, Merc. People die, new people are called. No one ever thought blacks would get the priesthood. No one ever thought the penalties would be taken out of the endowment. No one ever thought garments would be knee-high and two piece. No one ever thought white would be delightsome. No one ever thought plural marriage would be withdrawn. No one ever thought Joseph would lie.
They were all wrong. When this group of leaders is all dead, there will be changes. God bless us every one. The only thing that is certain is change.
