What is the worst thing for apologists to defend?

[_Runtu]

There are other more mundane things that explain that.

To use an overused analogy, there is a man in my ward in Texas who will tell everyone who will listen about his interactions with extraterrestrials, who appeared late at night as he was driving along a deserted highway in West Texas. How does one account for the existence of a large number of people who believe that they, too, have interacted with aliens? And does that "interaction" compensate for the lack of empirical evidence?

[_barrelomonkeys]

I'm not asserting that you're in denial. I'm saying that it's possible, among the available options that would explain why you believe the things you've said you believe. I don't know you, so I can't say what explains your beliefs with any measure of accuracy. All I can say is that there's no empirical evidence for what you believe, so some other explanation is needed, and those are the ones I've offered. You decide what best suits you.

One thing I can say with a large measure of certainty is that there's a more reasonable explanation for you thinking you saw god(s) than the idea that you actually saw one (some).

God doesn't seem big on empirical evidence. It would be easy for him to prove that he exists if he really wanted to.

Nehor, what do you think the world would be like if God did not exist?

[_asbestosman]

There are other more mundane things that explain that.

True, but I'm not sure which mundane things can explain away information received by some of these experiences such as The Nehor has referred to. I am unaware of aliens telling people messages of things they needed to know, especially things they had no clue they would need to know.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Never mind. In poor taste.

[_Who Knows]

There are other more mundane things that explain that.

True, but I'm not sure which mundane things can explain away information received by some of these experiences such as The Nehor has referred to. I am unaware of aliens telling people messages of things they needed to know, especially things they had no clue they would need to know.

I think the point is that many people have their "special experiences" that can "only" be explained by the supernatural. Sure, one may not look like the other. But at the end of the day, they're the same - personal experiences that could only happen through supernatural means - that no one else can verify. Yeah, yeah.

All the while, we know that the brain can do some seriously strange things...

[_Runtu]

I think the point is that many people have their "special experiences" that can "only" be explained by the supernatural. Sure, one may not look like the other. But at the end of the day, they're the same - personal experiences that could only happen through supernatural means - that no one else can verify. Yeah, yeah.

All the while, we know that the brain can do some seriously strange things...

For example, this summer my wife and I had decided to move to Houston, as planned. We sat down and figured out everything we needed to do, and yet, for both of us, it just felt wrong to move. I never felt right about it, and when I told her how I was feeling, she was relieved because she had had the same feelings. So, we thought we'd just postpone the move for a year, and we both felt good about the decision.

A few weeks later I got a job offer out of the blue with a company in Utah. It turned out to be a good offer, and here I am. My wife says that Heavenly Father must not have wanted us to move, so he gave us the bad feelings, but if there's a church member less "worthy" of receiving spiritual promptings than an apostate high priest like me, I don't know who that might be. So, was God speaking to a faithful sister and her apostate husband, or were we both just not feeling good about something for reasons unrelated to spiritual matters?

[_Mister Scratch]

Zelph?

Book of Abraham?

King Follet discourse?

1835 Edition of the D&C?

Polygamy?

Lack of evidence around Cumorah supporting the battles?

Cumorah's cave that contains gold plates stack to the ceiling?

Huh. This is an excellent question. I, for one, do not really care what they defend, though I do lend a critical eye to the manner in which they defend things. I don't have all that big of a problem with Mopologists saying, "I really hope that the Book of Mormon theory about Native Americans being Israelites is true." That is fine, AFAIC. When they start using smear tactics to attack critics, and inventing bogus transcripts, however, I def. take issue. Likewise, if they are putting up misleading statements, such as the claim that there is legit and respectable scientific evidence about a 100 B.C. horse, then we've got problems.

[_Gadianton]

I am unaware of aliens telling people messages of things they needed to know, especially things they had no clue they would need to know.

Aren't these the best kind of revelations?

Asb, I am a God, and I'd like to tell you something. Now there might be something you need to know the answer to, and it might prove that I have some special powers if I can anticipate that, but instead I would like to reveal something to you that you have no clue you need to know.

I hereby give unto the number 19.4503. You don't think you need to know that, but I assure you that you do.

These experiences sound more like Grays than Gods. Grays are mischievious and tricky and don't necessarily have the betterment of manking in mind when they intervene.

My biggest question to anyone who experiences these kinds of things is, why are you so special? Why are gods visiting you and not the prophet, or why aren't they instead out fixing worse problems with their direct intervention? I'm sure there are plenty of rape and slaughter victims in the darkest parts of Africa who could use some information more badly than your typical confused american youth. So then you have to think, well maybe greater things will result and that's why it had to happen. But the few people I know who claim these kinds of drastic interaction with supernatural beings (good or bad) don't go on to do anything anyone could really call significant.

It's like, God is giving funky experiences for the sake of the person having a funky experience.

[_Tarski]

There are other more mundane things that explain that.

True, but I'm not sure which mundane things can explain away information received by some of these experiences such as The Nehor has referred to. I am unaware of aliens telling people messages of things they needed to know, especially things they had no clue they would need to know.

I am unaware of aliens telling people messages of things they needed to know too.
I am also unaware of gods telling people messages of things they needed to know.

I am aware of people thinking such things happened to them.
I am sure they don't.

Of course, I once dreamed that something was going to happen and it did.
Fortunately, I understand the notion of a coincidence.

[_asbestosman]

It's like, God is giving funky experiences for the sake of the person having a funky experience.

Or perhaps for the sake of the person developing a better relationship with God and perhaps helping others do that also. When you think about it, all the attrocities in the world are quite short compared to the eternity that (we believe) will happen afterwards. Thus from that point of view we have more to gain from learning about God through various means than we do from having God solve world hunger.

So why doesn't God kill two birds with one stone and intervene in the other things? I think He does at times. Why not more often? I do not know, but I do not believe that negates evidence in favor of His existence. Indeed, I think the information He gives is a bit more obviously applicable than 19.4503.