Anyone feel queasy when they realize they voted for Bush?

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_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Gazelam wrote:America is the greatest country on earth. There is no comparison. I know that there are plenty here that would argue that we should be more like Amsterdam, Holland. But that would be regressing, not expanding.

The fact of the matter is, is that any country that wishs to dominate the earth as a capitol and center speaks ONE LANGUAGE. They don't adapt to where they are expanding to, they expect others to adapt to them!!


Huh. An interesting viewpoint. Are you also of the mind that the Church should only publish the Book of Mormon in English? Or that Church services in, say, Japan, should be conducted only in English? Just curious! I mean, your logic would sort of seem to dictate that the Church adopt this attitude, right?
_Gazelam
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Post by _Gazelam »

How many languages do you think are spoken in heaven?

We can reach out in their language, but if they wish to adapt to us, we have one language here in the US.

When/if I get to heaven, I'll have to learn that language.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Gazelam wrote:How many languages do you think are spoken in heaven?

We can reach out in their language, but if they wish to adapt to us, we have one language here in the US.

When/if I get to heaven, I'll have to learn that language.


You're changing the subject, Gaz. Your logic dictates that the Church's missionary efforts ought to be conducted entirely in English. Do you agree? Or do you think your logic needs revision?
_Pumplehoober
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Post by _Pumplehoober »

Gazelam wrote:Either be a citizen, or go home. How about that? If this country is so great that you have to break into it, how about you swaer allegiance to it and adapt to its existing culture. If your home country is such a pices of garbage that you flee from it to seek out a better life, then leave it behind, stop plastering your home countrys stickers all over your damn cars and waving its flag in parades where your demanding rights that you don't deserve. (Citizens have rights here, not you "essey")


I've traveled through Africa, Asia, Europe, North America, and the Middle East, and I have been able to use English wherever I traveled. English has become the lingua franca of the modern world.

People who come to the US will eventually learn English because their economic progression and future depend on it. In the past immigrants have set up communities where they speak their native languages (Little Italy, China Town, Jewish neighborhoods, etc…), and somehow the children of these communities eventually learned English. Why make a big issue out of the inevitable?
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Bush has been a very mixed bag, but the alternative was a self serving, egocentric liar, useful idiot, brazen slanderer of those who fought and died bravely in Vietnam for a noble cause, and contemptible traitor to his country (while still in uniform at one point) by the name of John Kerry.

So I chose the mushy over the throughly decomposed.

It is the case, however, that only God knows how many more 9/11s we might have suffered had Kerry been elected. Our military would indeed have been virtually dismantled and we would have been a wide open, soft target for our enemies. But not to fear. The present Democratically led Congress is heavily invested in our humiliating defeat in this war, and just may engineer it, bringing back the glory days of the Saigon evacuation and the killing fields.
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.


- Thomas S. Monson
_Pumplehoober
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Post by _Pumplehoober »

Coggins7 wrote:Bush has been a very mixed bag, but the alternative was a self serving, egocentric liar, useful idiot, brazen slanderer of those who fought and died bravely in Vietnam for a noble cause, and contemptible traitor to his country (while still in uniform at one point) by the name of John Kerry.

So I chose the mushy over the throughly decomposed.

It is the case, however, that only God knows how many more 9/11s we might have suffered had Kerry been elected. Our military would indeed have been virtually dismantled and we would have been a wide open, soft target for our enemies. But not to fear. The present Democratically led Congress is heavily invested in our humiliating defeat in this war, and just may engineer it, bringing back the glory days of the Saigon evacuation and the killing fields.


Can you explain the above with specific policy examples?
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Pumplehoober wrote:
Coggins7 wrote:Bush has been a very mixed bag, but the alternative was a self serving, egocentric liar, useful idiot, brazen slanderer of those who fought and died bravely in Vietnam for a noble cause, and contemptible traitor to his country (while still in uniform at one point) by the name of John Kerry.

So I chose the mushy over the throughly decomposed.

It is the case, however, that only God knows how many more 9/11s we might have suffered had Kerry been elected. Our military would indeed have been virtually dismantled and we would have been a wide open, soft target for our enemies. But not to fear. The present Democratically led Congress is heavily invested in our humiliating defeat in this war, and just may engineer it, bringing back the glory days of the Saigon evacuation and the killing fields.


Can you explain the above with specific policy examples?


With regard to what part of this?
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.


- Thomas S. Monson
_Gazelam
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Scratch

Post by _Gazelam »

How is a discussion over President Bushs policy now being changed into a discussion about the church? Your the one changing the subject. In a discussion about illegal immigrants I say that we have ambassadors who speak foreign languages to promote america, but here in America the national language is english.

The Church is an entirely different entity. We preach the gospel in the native tongue of the country we are preaching in. (Amazing concept, that speaking the language of the place your visiting eh?) The church is not an American church. It is the Lords church, and as the lord does, you suit the lesson and adapt the lesson to the people you are teaching. Your attempting to bring the culture of the Lord, not the American culture, to a people.

Therefore the church does not strictly use english. And everyone in the next life will need to learn the language of the Lord.

America on the other hand, outside of diplomatic communities, does need to be strictly english.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

Hindsight is always 20/20, but it is not clear to me that John Kerry would have done a better job with the situation in Iraq. I mean he wasn't going to withdraw our troops either, and after seeing how opposing party handled Vietnam, and the swift and efficient manner Bush Sr. handled Iraq the first time, there was little reason not to vote for Bush Jr. But I have been upset with the way Iraq has been handled, though I agreed with the idea of removing Hussein long before there was talk about WMDs.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

Mister Scratch wrote:Well said, Tarski. I have never really understood why so many people (I.e., white Americans) whine about not understanding Spanish, or whatever other language. The U.S. is the wealthiest, most powerful country in the world, and yet why is it that the average, very low income Mexican immigrant has a better grasp of two language than 99% of white Americans? The complaint should not be that the "Others" speak a different language, the complaint should be that Americans are too lazy/dumb/racist/xenophobic to put in the time learning other languages.


I don't think this is entirely true. At least, not in all cases. Of course immigrants eventually learn the language, but it is usually the second generation that does. My wife's family, for example. Her Uncle has been living in Utah for more than a decade, and he still cannot maintain a coherent conversation with me in English. The Brazilians in our family have a tendency to form enclaves and stick together whenever migrating abroad. The same is true in Orlando, where an entire section of the city seems like Brazil.

Sure, Americans are lazy, but no more so than citizens of most other countries, especially Brazil and Mexico! I feel like I am on vacation down here, even though I work two jobs. It seems like every other day is a freakin holiday, which we get paid for, and we get two hours for lunch every day. Also, the government has made it virtually impossible for companies to fire anyone. Seriously. If you get fired from a salaried job, they have to keep paying you unless they can prove you stole from them or something to that effect.

Oh, and everyone receives an extra month's pay at the end of the year. Most government jobs in Brasilia receive two month's pay. The result is that people get paid too much for doing too little and once they get a job they don't try to maintain it. They don't need to because they can't get fired. So customer service in this country is the pits.

And people here go on strike all the flippin time and while they are on strike the government makes the companies continue to pay them. I work at Banco Central where a strike just ended after 9 weeks or protest. Their gripe was that they wanted more money. The Bank offered a 34% increase and the people rejected it because it would go into effect at the beginning of next year. A freaking 34% increase!!! So after another 10 days they gave them what they wanted and the increase took effect immediately. This is an annual event too. Every year every company experiences a strike.

To understand the insanity of this process, take this analogy. A man who mows grass for a living comes up to your lawn and says he will cut your grass for 50 bucks. Five other people are fighting for the job and offer to do it for less. You decide to go with someone who does it for 35 bucks. So after making the employment contract, you expect the man to do his job. But half way through his work he decides he wants to charge you 60 bucks instead. By law, he does not have to finish his work, and you have to pay him the 35. The only way to get him to finish legally is to pay him his desired increase. This idiotic legislation has created a society of con-artists who know how to work the system.

There are English schools around every corner, but few actually learn the language. The only ones who speak it sufficiently are those who lived in an English speaking country for some time. Incidentally, I lived in Spain while on my mission, and it was very hard to find someone who could speak English. I know that is different in other European countries like France and especially Switzerland. But the Spaniards were far more intolerant towards the "Gypsy" Morroccans than Americans have ever been towards illegal immigrants from Mexico.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
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