The Reason I believed the LDS church was True..

[_barrelomonkeys]

..I've had lots of close calls and have no idea why 1. I'm still alive or 2 Have a semi functioning brain. :)

I've had instances where I think of someone and I'm about to call them and wala they are calling me. I've had aha moments that sort of staved off disaster. I've witnessed some pretty catastrophic things and yet was never the one hurt (maybe psychologically only).

I've wandered around in seedy areas of town in the wee hours of the morning. I've depended on the kindness of strangers (funny there always were a few when I was really messed up) and no matter how low I got in life I sort of bounced right back up. I hitch hiked, was homeless, did lots of risky behavior and yet somehow skated right on through. Quite a few of my friends did not make it out of the lifestyle we lived.

Funny thing. I never believed God was with me or had any truth other than I was a little hedonist having a hell of a good time. Don't know what that means if anything.

The man that was healed in the hospital was my former brother in law. He sang at my mission farewell a few weeks later. At that time he sported a "lucky 13" tattoo, had confessed unspeakable things, spent 3 years in prison and was a heroin addict. He even died in my arms on a previous occasion after attempting suicide. He's spent the more part of his life getting degrees in prison, homeless or just trying to dry out again. I talked to him for the first time in 20 years just a few months ago. He's now dieing of everything. Homebound, respirator etc. I'm not always sure what to think, but it is amazing that he has survived this long and has had the time in mortality to learn wisdom at his pace. A Book of Mormon teacher at BYU said that it's not where you are on the road but what direction your facing. I think I get that.

I believed that the day he was healed in the ER was God's way of saying that every soul has value and that man can call down a miracle from heaven.

"well, brother, it's ironic that you finally get your mind together when your body falls apart".


(By the way, sorry to all of you for hogging so much bandwidth)

I'm not sure what made me smile more; your positive and supportive post or the idea that you hog too much bandwidth. ;)

I'm glad that your friend has found peace in his life.

[_Who Knows]

How about similar experiences where nothing happened? I've had these types of experiences..

Driving on the freeway, I've felt prompted to switch lanes for some reason, and have done so. But nothing happened.
Or waking up in the night, feeling the need to check on one of my children, and done so. But there was nothing wrong.
Or feeling the need to get in touch someone out of the blue to check on them. But they were fine.

How often do we forget about those experiences, and only remember the ones where it did result in something "miraculous"?

I guess the fact of the matter is that everything was alright. Just because the tower requests that the pilot check his heading doesn't mean he's off course.

My point is - those sorts of 'promptings' happen all the time. It's only when something 'good' happens as a result, that some attribute some sort of 'miracle' to it - 'god' did it. The times that nothing 'miraculous' happens, we just tend to forget about it.

In other words - if i get 'prompted' to get out of bed during the night to check on my kid 10 times during the year, and 1 of those times, it turns out that he was choking (or something awful), and the fact that i checked on him saved his life - then i (if i were still a believer in god) might use that as some sort of faith promoting story. Ignoring the other times there was nothing wrong.

I prefer to call things like that 'intuition'. Which is nothing more than the culmination of a lifetime of learnings. No supernatural explanation required.

[_harmony]

One thing to remember and understand about God: he's no respector of persons. He's there, doing his thing, whether we believe in him or not. The sun shines on the believer and the unbeliever alike, JAK and marg notwithstanding. If we grow because of that blessing, it is to our benefit. But even if we don't acknowledge God, the sun still shines on us all.

[_marg]

Thanks all of you for your input. Your perspectives are very welcome (except you JAK. I have no idea what you are doing here other than to annoy yourself).

Marj said:
Well I guess yes I have had such experiences but never attributed good fortune to a God. But maybe you are right. I should thank God that I had parents who didn't indoctrinate me into any organized religion and thank God I did not waste countless hours, time, energy and money on the trappings of it all.

You know, Marj, sometimes I wish I could just reformat my corrupted hard drive, but it is what it is. About all I can do short of this is a defrag and keep freeing up space for useful data. Maybe I might share more of my background sometime. Suffice to say, my family didn't quite fit your stereotype, but it's close enough.

You seem well adjusted. Not sure why you posted either. You and JAK might get together and start your very own thread entitled "What am I doing here??" because I certainly am in the dark.

My post which you don't get is quite serious. I am thankful my parents did not indoctrinate me into a religion. And I gave you some of my reasons. You ask why I am here. I guess that means you think I shouldn't be. So I ask you why do you think that?

[_JAK]

One thing to remember and understand about God: he's no respector of persons. He's there, doing his thing, whether we believe in him or not. The sun shines on the believer and the unbeliever alike, JAK and marg notwithstanding. If we grow because of that blessing, it is to our benefit. But even if we don't acknowledge God, the sun still shines on us all.

No reliable evidence for any claims for gods in earlier times and for God subsequently have been established.

There is evidence for various God inventions that are products of human superstition and speculation. Those inventions differ widely in their claims. Absent evidence, one should expect that God inventions would differ widely.

JAK

[_sruggio]

Inconceivable,

I appreciate your sharing some of your experiences. You have encouraged me to share a few.

First of all I am active LDS. I was a convert at 22 and a member now for almost 44 years.

I was not raised in a church going home. My mother and father, both, drank, smoked, and cheated on each other.

I joined the church because, my wife was a member, I accepted the church as Christian, and I knew that it would make my wife happy.

I did not ask for spiritual conformation because I just didn’t care. The church taught Christian principles, and mostly practiced what they preached.

I did not get a spiritual conformation until my eleventh year of membership. By the way I was active even when my wife was in-active.

You know when you get a priesthood blessing and the results are immediate, that really builds your testimony. I cannot even remember the year but it was in the early 80’s. I was councilor in a Stake calling where we were teaching the 17-19 year old young men the missionary discussions prior to their entering the mission field. As some would guess we were not having the best of luck getting these youth to participate.

We decided to do a three day fast and prayer for the Lord to soften their hearts. Between the second and third day of the fast about 3:00am I awoke with pain in my lower abdomen. I prayed for it to go away but it didn’t. I decided to break the fast because I thought it was because of hunger. Still the pain persisted. I woke my wife up and told her that I needed to go to the hospital.

To shorten the story I was having an appendicitis. The doctor said it was ready to burst and that I needed immediate surgery. By that time, the other two members of our Stake calling had come to give me a priesthood blessing. As of this time I had not received any medication for my pain. The pain was so great that I was perspiring. I do not remember what they said in the blessing. I do know FOR A FACT that the pain immediately left me. The doctor came in within a minute from the time the blessing was completed and asked me how I was doing. I told him that I was doing great and I had no pain at all. He said “I don’t give a damn what these guys did, that appendix is coming out now!” I then was wheeled into the operating room.

I will relate other blessings on another posting. My wife is waiting for me to come home.

Stan

[_Inconceivable]

Thanks all of you for your input. Your perspectives are very welcome (except you JAK. I have no idea what you are doing here other than to annoy yourself).

Marj said:
Well I guess yes I have had such experiences but never attributed good fortune to a God. But maybe you are right. I should thank God that I had parents who didn't indoctrinate me into any organized religion and thank God I did not waste countless hours, time, energy and money on the trappings of it all.

You know, Marj, sometimes I wish I could just reformat my corrupted hard drive, but it is what it is. About all I can do short of this is a defrag and keep freeing up space for useful data. Maybe I might share more of my background sometime. Suffice to say, my family didn't quite fit your stereotype, but it's close enough.

You seem well adjusted. Not sure why you posted either. You and JAK might get together and start your very own thread entitled "What am I doing here??" because I certainly am in the dark.

My post which you don't get is quite serious. I am thankful my parents did not indoctrinate me into a religion. And I gave you some of my reasons. You ask why I am here. I guess that means you think I shouldn't be. So I ask you why do you think that?

I get it, Marj. You're glad you didn't have stupid misguided Mormon parents or any other combo of religeous zealot. High fives for showing up as a random coincedence in a well balanced, non religious family.

Marj, I don't know you well enough to understand why you are here at MD. If you think there is value in an explanation, I would be somewhat intrigued. But please, why don't you start your own thread.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi In-co, thanks for sharing. You are in good company, and not alone in experiences such as You describe. I respectfully suggest they are of a Universal nature, not of a religious nature, that one can label as their nature & nurture has conditioned them to do. Religions of all stripes have been very involved in "nurturing" humanoids for over 1,000s of years. Not ALL bad. Not ALL good. But, is it at ALL necessary? Obviously to some yes, to others no...

As a still-on-the-books Mormon, since 1956, (who held most Local-Leadership-Positions) i can relate some what with your dilema--if i'm reading you correctly... Might it be You are ready to 'Graduate' but feel the pull of old-school-ties? You are ready to venture out, but feel unsure of Your footing... If so, quite natural. And just possibly You can't do it (now) because of conditions and circumstances beyond Your control--but somehow i doubt that.

Although, your reaction to JAK & MARG (not Marj:-) suggests YOU might not be ready to extricate yourself from LDSism, or religion in general??? IF You can ever set aside Your prejudice & thoroughly, intelligently consider JAK's rational, it will be to Your advantage. Whether You agree or not...Simply try to understand.

He's here to teach. I thought we were here to learn? You are presenting questions. Others are providing answers. Surely You don't expect ALL answers to be to Your liking??? Warm regards, Roger

[_truth dancer]

Hi Stan,

Welcome to the board.

Nice story!

So... how do you account for the billions of people, covering the world, who do not have the Priesthood, do not believe in any form of Christianity, and/or do not believe in God?

There are "healings" literally all the time, all over the planet.

Spontanious healings, faith healings, healing from blessings of meditation, healings through thoughts, healings by other spiritual leaders, healing at Lourdes, healings at Mecca, healing through intention, healings in every religion, healings in Paganism, etc. etc.... I could go on and on and on.

Do you think other forms of healing are of God? Of Satan? Not real? Unexplained?

Do blessings "work?" Well, yes, in the same way every other intention, thought, meditation, work.

;-)

~dancer~

[_sruggio]

Truth Dancer,

"So... how do you account for the billions of people, covering the world, who do not have the Priesthood, do not believe in any form of Christianity, and/or do not believe in God? "

First of all I know that healings and miracles are not limited to those who hold the Priesthood. But that does not keep me from my faith that I can give or receive blessings via the Priesthood. As I have pointed out on other forums, I believe that God The Father was the creator of my spirit and by this definition is my Father.

Unlike most of Christianity and obviously atheist and agnostics, I can visualize God in my mind, in human form but exalted. This mental visualization helps me when I pray because I believe that I am talking to Him, and if I am paying attention He will respond to me. When I pray I am very specific on my desires. Sometimes I get what I want and sometimes I don’t.

The most awesome part of my mental visualization, to me, is that I have peace in my mind that God really loves me.

Knowing His love for me, I can understand His infinite love for all of His spirit children.

Because I know for myself that He loves all of His children, I can understand that He will bless both believers and non-believers because of His love.

To try to equate His love for us, to something that I understand, I can look at my own children. Two of them believe in God but are unwilling to follow His commandments. Do I love them less because of their decisions? My answer is no. I do not approve of their decisions but I love them and I will help them whenever the situation arises.

I think I read one of your posts where you followed a similar path as these two daughters of mine. I can testify to you that your own father has/ or had feelings, similar to mine, about you.

I hope that my answer here can help you understand why my faith in God is so strong.

Stan