What has happened to the God of love?

[_moksha]

At Beliefnet, one of the participants Dorjem, has posed an interesting question and has some interesting thoughts concerning God's love. I thought it had the potential of creating an interesting discussion here.

You know, I do not believe I have ever attended an LDS service where we basked and celebrated in the love of God.
Every time his love is spoken about there is a disclaimer to that love (e.g.) God loves you unconditionally however,
if you do not do it his way you will go to hell; or, God wants us to have our free choice but, if you choose wrong its
curtains for you.

We have to dress a certain way to show our respect. Our outward vessels look squeaky clean. We have to speak a certain
way to show our respect. Our lips draw near to him but where are our hearts. We are not taught to love God we are taught
to be afraid of God. What kind of father would require a child to prove themselves worthy of their love? What kind of father
would make his child earn every gift or blessing he wants to give that child.

I have never heard a sacrament meeting talk which hasn't given us rules we have to adhere by if we want to partake of
God's love. Why? Could it be that the reason people cannot comprehend the love of God is only because they have been
taught something other than that love?

Well, what do you think?

[_The Nehor]

I find God's love is best experienced on one's own though I have been to Church meetings that focussed on the Love of God. Most weren't that good as they devolved into people crying about experiences I couldn't relate to. It takes a spiritual person at the top of their game to teach the Love of God the right way without it becoming mindlessly sentimental or a chorus of meaningless platitudes.

Your description of meetings makes me think we need more quality (not quantity) teaching on Repentance and the Atonement. Those who always want to limit God's love and put endless provisos around it always seem guilty to me.....as if they don't deserve God's love or his blessings. The truth is we don't deserve it but he's giving it all anyway and for that we can rejoice and be glad once we use the atonement to get rid of the guilt. We don't seem to want to though. We like our guilt. We're tough individualists who can deal with our own problems thank you very much. Then we go off and make jackasses out of ourselves every day while pretending we're not.

It's a shame when we could all be as innocent as kids again and smile and laugh a lot more.

[_James Clifford Miller]

I think that if a real god ever contacted people on the earth, an indication that he/she/it was a real god would be that his/her/its message would be one of love, love from him/her/it to us, and love between us mortal humans. The only rule would be that we were nice to each other. There would be no requirement for worship because I doubt a real supernatural being would need anything remotely resembling worship.

James Clifford Miller
millerjamesc@cox.net

[_barrelomonkeys]

Moksha, I agree with the poster from beliefnet. I can't imagine God cares what I wear or what anyone else wears. Does God love strippers less than frumpy Mommies? I think not.

It's either God loves you unconditionally or there are strings attached. It seems obvious to me that most of the "rules" for God to love us are really rules for living a healthy lifestyle (and that varies according to who is making the rules). Some "rules" for God to love us are obviously made by men and current fads.

[_Livingstone22]

I think this quote needs to be looked in the light that it is someone's opinion; they are his true feelings and shouldn't be mocked--but they are just opinions because, I'm sure, we can all agree here that not all LDS have the same feelings while attending meetings. I grew up as a protestant, and I can relate very well to the opinions that this person has--it makes a lot of sense to me. There is more emphasis on worthiness and the absence of sins, whereas other Christian traditions do not hold such an emphasis on such things, but rather on grace and having been forgiven...despite any ordinances or particular abstinence from certain acts ("sins").

But the point I'm trying to make is that I just don't know that we can show any definitive evidence that this quote has any intrinsic atmosphere that's created during meetings.

[_The Nehor]

I think that if a real god ever contacted people on the earth, an indication that he/she/it was a real god would be that his/her/its message would be one of love, love from him/her/it to us, and love between us mortal humans. The only rule would be that we were nice to each other. There would be no requirement for worship because I doubt a real supernatural being would need anything remotely resembling worship.

James Clifford Miller
millerjamesc@cox.net

The idea of worship is to emulate God's love. He has no need of our worship.

Your doctrine sounds good but God has been telling people to be nice to each other. So far it really hasn't worked. God has a destiny for us his creations and asking him to lower his standards and deny us more happiness is not going to happen. That's asking for a God of less love, not more.

[_Polygamy Porter]

The idea of worship is to emulate God's love. He has no need of our worship.

Your doctrine sounds good but God has been telling people to be nice to each other. So far it really hasn't worked. God has a destiny for us his creations and asking him to lower his standards and deny us more happiness is not going to happen. That's asking for a God of less love, not more.

God would not let 1/3 of his kids take a ride on the third rock from the sun because they were beguiled by the other older son who lost a pretend battle in the preexistence.

God drowned his kids like unwanted puppies in a gunny sack because they would not keep their rooms clean.

God destroyed entire cities because his kids where being to noisy.

Oh yeah this god fella, sounds like he is full of love and compassion.

[_The Nehor]

God would not let 1/3 of his kids take a ride on the third rock from the sun because they were beguiled by the other older son who lost a pretend battle in the preexistence.

God drowned his kids like unwanted puppies in a gunny sack because they would not keep their rooms clean.

God destroyed entire cities because his kids where being to noisy.

Oh yeah this god fella, sounds like he is full of love and compassion.

I think it's because one-third of his kids were willing to surrender their free will to evil. We have enough people who will do that here. We don't need more.

If you equate having an unclean room with murder, pure carnality, and obsession with power than you might have bigger problems.

If by noisy you mean being murderous thieving bastards than your problems increase. Good luck with that.

[_James Clifford Miller]

I think that if a real god ever contacted people on the earth, an indication that he/she/it was a real god would be that his/her/its message would be one of love, love from him/her/it to us, and love between us mortal humans. The only rule would be that we were nice to each other. There would be no requirement for worship because I doubt a real supernatural being would need anything remotely resembling worship.

James Clifford Miller
millerjamesc@cox.net

The idea of worship is to emulate God's love. He has no need of our worship.

Perhaps, but he seems to require it nevertheless.

Your doctrine sounds good but God has been telling people to be nice to each other. So far it really hasn't worked.

That may be because he has also asked people to kill each other, specifically for his believers to kill unbelievers (except, according to the Old Testament, for any cattle and young virgin women). According to the Old Testament, he even takes this to the level of killing small infants who in my opinion could not have done anything to deserve being killed. No wonder this god's contradictory and bloodthirsty teachings haven't worked.

God has a destiny for us his creations and asking him to lower his standards and deny us more happiness is not going to happen.

In this specific context, by "lowering his standards" do you mean NOT commanding believers to kill unbelievers?

That's asking for a God of less love, not more.

You and I clearly define love differently. I would include "not killing" as part of the love. From passages in the the Old Testament, the god of the Old Testament evidently includes killing nonbelievers as part of love.

I'm not persuaded by the tortured mental gymnastics of believers who somehow have to accommodate the long list of commanded atrocities in the Old Testament. I seriously doubt a real god would have commanded these atrocities. Period. Consequently, I reject the diety claims of the Old Testament god.

James Clifford Miller
millerjamesc@cox.net

[_Dakotah]

A God of love created mosquitoes, leeches, ticks, cholera, cancer, leprosy and so many other terrible and painful things for us, his loved children?