Giving and Taking Offense

[_Who Knows]

Some of you just don't know Wade as well as those of us who have been with him since ZLMB know Wade.

Do we give Wade the opportunity to grow and change, or do we still judge him from old posts?

As for myself, until I witness him acting like this again, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

From what I have observed, Wade has been the target of multiple cheap shots and weak insults.

Go for it man.

But some of us have been around on this board since last year when he started posting here. Same old, same old.

[_barrelomonkeys]

ooh! I want me some of that!

Oh - should have mentioned. It also helps if you worship Satan. (Which all 'true' atheists secretly do of course).

I realized the hedonism was pretty satisfying in and of itself without the need for LaVey and all the Satanism junk. Just too lazy to keep up with it. I'm such a poseur atheist too!


;P

[_barrelomonkeys]

Some of you just don't know Wade as well as those of us who have been with him since ZLMB know Wade.

Do we give Wade the opportunity to grow and change, or do we still judge him from old posts?

As for myself, until I witness him acting like this again, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

From what I have observed, Wade has been the target of multiple cheap shots and weak insults.

Go for it man.

But some of us have been around on this board since last year when he started posting here. Same old, same old.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt too.

[_asbestosman]

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt too.

But should we give him the benefit of faith as well?

[_wenglund]

I do remember having a fairly usual, by-the-numbers, tit-for-tat debate with Wade over homosexuality over on the MAD board a while back.
On the whole - as I say - it was pretty text-book stuff. But I've gotta say - near the end of it, I was detecting quite a bit more willingness to try and reach some common ground than many others I could mention over at MAD.

...perhaps that doesn't mean that much in and of itself ;) But I also remember Wade himself admitting that he's been trying to move away from some past attitudes and approaches. I think my opinions on Wade are kinda 'in flux'. I'm sure it's fair to say that I'm missing a lot of history here.

I very much appreciate you saying this.

Anyway, hopefully we can discuss the pro's and con's of avoiding offense and diplomacy without centering on Wade :)

I am all for that.

While I may agree with Wade's overall point, I'm not entirely sure he always practises what he preaches in this regard. But then again, I probably don't either - so... meh.

Progress is often not exactly in a straight line, but rather in a saw-tooth pattern upwards. This is certainly true for me, and I try and allow that latitude and flexibility for others. I am pleased to see that you do so as well, while others appear to hold me to a different standard (one they likely are averse to applying to themselves).

But, enough about me. Back to the generic topic of discussion.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Some of you just don't know Wade as well as those of us who have been with him since ZLMB know Wade.

Do we give Wade the opportunity to grow and change, or do we still judge him from old posts?

As for myself, until I witness him acting like this again, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

From what I have observed, Wade has been the target of multiple cheap shots and weak insults.

Hi Scottie,

I really appreciate your fair-mindedness and support. I have made a concerted effort over the last two years or so to behave far more civilly than I have in the past, and to encourage others to do likewise (having been met with conciderable resistence from certain quarters), though, as Renegade alluded to, I haven't been perfect in my efforts (who really is?).

However, if in the unlikely chance you read through the threads that Beastie linked to (I wouldn't advise it since they are quite counterproductive as usual given all the parties involved), I think you will find that even though there have been quite a few exchanges between she and I over the years, Beastie really doesn't know me--at least not as well as you have gotten to know me in a short period of time. What she "knows" is a straw man she has constructed of me in her mind. A figment of her imagination, and one she is rigidly determined to project onto me--which explains why she believes she knows better than me what I say and mean. I trust you will understand.

Anyway, I have come to accept this about her, and try not to pay it much mind. And, while she seems intent on making this about me, I think many of the rest of us (presumably you and me included) are ready to get back to generically discussing the issue at hand.

Thanks again for your support. -Wade Englund-

[_KimberlyAnn]

Some of you just don't know Wade as well as those of us who have been with him since ZLMB know Wade.

Do we give Wade the opportunity to grow and change, or do we still judge him from old posts?

As for myself, until I witness him acting like this again, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

From what I have observed, Wade has been the target of multiple cheap shots and weak insults.

Go for it man.

But some of us have been around on this board since last year when he started posting here. Same old, same old.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt too.

I'm not. He's proved himself to be an unremitting asshole to me from the first post I made here up to my most current post, which was made today. I don't need to give him the benefit of the doubt - I've got experience with him and I base my judgments off that. Wade has earned every bit of scorn that's directed at him. That's my take on it, and I feel no need whatsoever to pretend to be civil to him when he is, behind his false sincerity and flowery prose, a condescending holier-than-thou first rate asshole.

KA

[_barrelomonkeys]

Some of you just don't know Wade as well as those of us who have been with him since ZLMB know Wade.

Do we give Wade the opportunity to grow and change, or do we still judge him from old posts?

As for myself, until I witness him acting like this again, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

From what I have observed, Wade has been the target of multiple cheap shots and weak insults.

Go for it man.

But some of us have been around on this board since last year when he started posting here. Same old, same old.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt too.

I'm not. He's proved himself to be an unremitting asshole to me from the first post I made here up to my most current post, which was made today. I don't need to give him the benefit of the doubt - I've got experience with him and I base my judgments off that. Wade has earned every bit of scorn that's directed at him. That's my take on it, and I feel no need whatsoever to pretend to be civil to him when he is, behind his false sincerity and flowery prose, a condescending holier-than-thou first rate asshole.

KA

Hi KA. I saw the comment Wade made to you in your bishop thread. Interestingly enough when he wrote about whining and perspective I had fireworks go off in my head. I whine and moan and wallow often. More so lately than usual. I thought "KAPOW!" It sort of shocked me into considering what scars I precisely carried and whether my time would be better spent on more productive pursuits.

I'm not going to stop whining.... because right now it feels rather good, and despite my protestations I'm still quite a bit of a hedonist. So as I whine I'll consider what he said and not take offense.

I used to flame on boards. I can be hateful and incredibly mean spirited. Those posts do not reflect my intentions (although they certainly reflect flaws in my character) and my desire to have constructive dialogue that I now desire. I'm okay with people changing. I see an effort on his part.... perhaps this is misplaced. I'm sorry you were upset by what he said.

[_beastie]

Do we give Wade the opportunity to grow and change, or do we still judge him from old posts?

As for myself, until I witness him acting like this again, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

From what I have observed, Wade has been the target of multiple cheap shots and weak insults.

One - Wade has never disavowed his former sentiments concerning homosexuality or "anti-mormon bigotry". He just doesn't talk about it ad nauseum the way he used to. Wade goes on kicks, and that's not his current kick. His current kick is trying to point out how exmormons are psychologically troubled. It amazes me that some of you don't recognize what he's doing.

Two - Wade's current "conciliatory" posts also tend to contain self-congratulatory statements embedded in superiority, as well as containing digs against the poster in question. I don't think he's changed at all. I think he's just decided to be a bit more subtle.

I still see the Wade of old, the Wade who used to actually troll boards for homosexual men and preach to them. He was saying truly repellent and disgusting things about homosexuality, and then pretending to want to "help" them. They wisely called him on his BS and were quite rude to him, which he deserved. Likewise, I still see the Wade of old who considers even the mildest exmormon critic like Analytics to be a "bigot". After watching his behavior for years, I will never take him seriously, and will continue to call his BS when I see it. He's just learned how to pull back a bit.

[_wenglund]

I'm not. He's proved himself to be an unremitting asshole to me from the first post I made here up to my most current post, which was made today. I don't need to give him the benefit of the doubt - I've got experience with him and I base my judgments off that. Wade has earned every bit of scorn that's directed at him. That's my take on it, and I feel no need whatsoever to pretend to be civil to him when he is, behind his false sincerity and flowery prose, a condescending holier-than-thou first rate asshole.

KA

It is apparently true what they say about "a woman scorned". ;-)

However, rather than feed the scorn (towards me as well as the Church), perhaps it would be best if I just leave Kimberlyann alone to do unfettered whatever it is she does.

She's all yours.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-