Did Jesus raise the dead?

[_richardMdBorn]

JAK wrote

Dramatic shifts have produced a fractured religion over time. Had it not been for the Emperor Constintine the Great, we might never have heard of the religion. Because Constintine from a position of power declared Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire in the late 300s, it has survived.

Constantine made Christianity a tolerated religion. Theodosius and his western counterpart Gratian, recognized Christianity as the official religion of the Empire in 380 AD.

[_Canucklehead]

JAK wrote

Dramatic shifts have produced a fractured religion over time. Had it not been for the Emperor Constintine the Great, we might never have heard of the religion. Because Constintine from a position of power declared Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire in the late 300s, it has survived.

Constantine made Christianity a tolerated religion. Theodosius and his western counterpart Gratian, recognized Christianity as the official religion of the Empire in 380 AD.

Dang. Do I get partial points for the dates?

[_Canucklehead]

Canuckulehead, (from Que. eh?:-) you said:

Once you reject his supernatural miracles, Jesus loses his claim to divine authority and his teachings sit on par with any other philosophical position - one which needs to be rationally evaluated on its supposed merits.

Nonetheless, if more people were to accept that Jesus was just an important teacher rather than god incarnate, religion would probably be a less destructive force in modern society. (UL added)

Agree, which I think answers your own question, "...what is the point in believing ("in," which word I would remove :-) Jesus..." And, I suggest, cuz he said some pretty neat stuff that, IF taken out of the 'religious' context, just might help folks understand a higher human purpose--cooperation, not competion--and enjoy better lives across our globe...

From Alberta ... live in Quebec for the time being.

I guess the point I was making was that once Jesus' supernatural claims are removed, then all the "neat stuff" :) that he said doesn't have any more authority behind it than anything that any other philosopher in human history has claimed. So, no longer does it suffice to use Jesus or the Bible's authority as a Trump card ... Jesus' claims have to be scrutinised and defended rationally just like everyone else'. This means that people who think seriously about Jesus' claims are no longer engaged in religion, but in philosophy.

Personally, I think that the stuff that guys like Plato, Rousseau and Nietzsche said is more interesting and neat than what Jesus said. (Rather, they asked more fundamental and interesting questions ... I don't always agree with their answers.)

;)

[Guest]

JAK wrote

Dramatic shifts have produced a fractured religion over time. Had it not been for the Emperor Constantine the Great, we might never have heard of the religion. Because Constantine from a position of power declared Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire in the late 300s, it has survived.

OK historians. What's wrong with this statement?

Constantine died in the mid 300s?

Some historical records place the dates for Constantine the Great from about 275 AD to 337 AD. However his subsequent heirs perpetuated Christianity as the official religion. He along with his heirs made many generous gifts to the early Christian church and built great cathedrals such as the Lateran Basilica in Rome. Under his influence, other famous churches in and near Rome were also constructed as symbols of power and a result of the influence of Constantine the Great.

Hence, Constantine and his heirs perpetuated the early Christian church.

Absent the enormous financial support and embrace of Christianity by Constantine the Great, the Christian history would be very different.

In 325 AD, Constantine presided over the first ecumenical (general) council of the Christian church. The council met in Nicaea, in what is now northwest Turkey, to deal with disputes among Christians.

More than 300 bishops from all parts of the empire attended.

The empire and Christianity were passed to his sons, Constantius, Constans, and Constantine II.

But it was the initial thrust of Constantine the Great which propelled the religion with wealth and power.

(Source: World Book Encyclopedia for much of the detail here)

JAK

[_JAK]

Canucklehead stated:
Personally, I think that the stuff that guys like Plato, Rousseau and Nietzsche said is more interesting and neat than what Jesus said. (Rather, they asked more fundamental and interesting questions ... I don't always agree with their answers.)

Most of the ideas found in the Bible originated in human thought previously. Keep in mind (as I’m sure you do), the alleged Jesus of the New Testament never wrote a word. In addition, his reported words were not put to writing until 30 to 110 years after they were claimed to have been spoken. Yet in the Bible we have what are purported to be exact quotes from a single person.

JAK

[_JAK]

JAK wrote

Dramatic shifts have produced a fractured religion over time. Had it not been for the Emperor Constintine the Great, we might never have heard of the religion. Because Constintine from a position of power declared Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire in the late 300s, it has survived.

Constantine made Christianity a tolerated religion. Theodosius and his western counterpart Gratian, recognized Christianity as the official religion of the Empire in 380 AD.

Constantine was the first emperor of Rome to become a Christian. During his reign, Christians gained freedom of worship, and the Christian church was recognized as a legal body. The Eastern Orthodox churches regarded Constantine as a saint.

Constantine the Great is alleged to have told of having a vision while sleeping before an important battle. In the vision, Constantine was promised victory if he fought under the sign of the cross.

Of course, this far back and without the benefit of television or even a person keeping record which could be immediately placed in a printing press, it’s a story. Nonetheless, it is frequently reported in history records. And since that time, many battles have been waged under the sign of the cross.

Even today in the USA, we frequently hear: God bless and protect our troops. The presumption is that God should protect our troops to enable them to kill troops which God dislikes. Or, God is on our side.

God myths continue to be used in war including use by the current President of the United States. It has been an often-used marketing tool.

JAK

[_ozemc]

Canucklehead stated:
Personally, I think that the stuff that guys like Plato, Rousseau and Nietzsche said is more interesting and neat than what Jesus said. (Rather, they asked more fundamental and interesting questions ... I don't always agree with their answers.)

Most of the ideas found in the Bible originated in human thought previously. Keep in mind (as I’m sure you do), the alleged Jesus of the New Testament never wrote a word. In addition, his reported words were not put to writing until 30 to 110 years after they were claimed to have been spoken. Yet in the Bible we have what are purported to be exact quotes from a single person.

JAK

That has always fascinated me, JAK.

I try to think back what I was doing and saying 30 years ago (I'm 49), and, while I can remember some of the events that took place, I'm pretty sure I can't remember specific conversations. At least not the actual words I spoke.

Hell, sometimes I have a hard time remembering what I did last week!

[_ozemc]

Canucklehead stated:
Personally, I think that the stuff that guys like Plato, Rousseau and Nietzsche said is more interesting and neat than what Jesus said. (Rather, they asked more fundamental and interesting questions ... I don't always agree with their answers.)

Most of the ideas found in the Bible originated in human thought previously. Keep in mind (as I’m sure you do), the alleged Jesus of the New Testament never wrote a word. In addition, his reported words were not put to writing until 30 to 110 years after they were claimed to have been spoken. Yet in the Bible we have what are purported to be exact quotes from a single person.

JAK

That has always fascinated me, JAK.

I try to think back what I was doing and saying 30 years ago (I'm 49), and, while I can remember some of the events that took place, I'm pretty sure I can't remember specific conversations. At least not the actual words I spoke.

Hell, sometimes I have a hard time remembering what I did last week!

[_Calculus Crusader]

Canucklehead stated:
Personally, I think that the stuff that guys like Plato, Rousseau and Nietzsche said is more interesting and neat than what Jesus said. (Rather, they asked more fundamental and interesting questions ... I don't always agree with their answers.)

Most of the ideas found in the Bible originated in human thought previously. Keep in mind (as I’m sure you do), the alleged Jesus of the New Testament never wrote a word. In addition, his reported words were not put to writing until 30 to 110 years after they were claimed to have been spoken. Yet in the Bible we have what are purported to be exact quotes from a single person.

JAK

The assumption here is that no one kept records of what Jesus said until Mark decided one day to sit down and write an account, which is erroneous. Mark and others incorporated earlier oral and written material that is no longer extant.

[_Calculus Crusader]

http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html#mithra
Horus
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.

Krishna
--He worked miracles and wonders, raising the dead and healing lepers, the deaf and the blind.

This may seem crazy, but have you ever consulted the primary sources or scholarly treatments of these characters?