Faith Oriented Thread for Believers of God or a Higher Power

[_Canucklehead]

Frankly, I don't see the harm in having one thread where people can share their faith in whatever god they choose without being attacked.

I also disagree that the existence of such a thread would mean that the board was being used for apologetics.

[_marg]

Frankly, I don't see the harm in having one thread where people can share their faith in whatever god they choose without being attacked.

Sure one thread can do little to no harm, but it's about a principle. On this board I don't think people should be told they can not voice an opinion regarding any issue, claim, point of view contrary to the one put forward.

If something is worthy of respect, it can be rationally argued for. I don't agree that any topic presented to the board for discussion should be considered "sacred" and opposition eliminated on that basis.

I also disagree that the existence of such a thread would mean that the board was being used for apologetics.

If only one side is allowed to be presented in a thread I can not see how it can not be apologetic in nature.

[_The Nehor]

I have similar experiences Moksha, thanks for the thread.

Marg, anything worth having respect for is probably defensible but defending the thing is not the reason you have it. If every time you told someone you loved someone else they demanded that you defend your love for them in exacting rational detail you would quickly tire of it.

[_sruggio]

P'tator :

Thank you for your response. I certainly do not know why some get conformation and some do not. I guess when we die on we will find out.

And as for not praying sincerely or asking again and again I personally do not use that as a reason for the Lord not responding.

Is she saved? I do believe so. Am I? I believe so. Are you? I hope so. Stan will be satisfied with what ever the Lord has for me.

From your postings it seems to me that you will get all that the Lord has to offer.

Following up on the Lord responding or not, I gave a talk some years ago in a Stake Priesthood meeting about obeying the law of tithing. At that time I was making more money than I could spend. And foolishly I found ways to blow it all. I related in my talk how the Lord had blessed me. After the meeting an older man, that I very knew well, came up to me and said that he had paid tithing all of his life and he did not receive the financial promise made in Malachi. I don’t know if the Spirit prompted me or what, but I responded that he has always had sufficient for his means, and possibly the blessings that he received was that of a righteous family. I know that Malachi promises that your cup will overflow, but, with what will it be filled.

I guess what I am saying is that maybe your answers are in a form other than what you are looking for.

In the long run my wealth did me more harm than good. Yeah I had sport cars, a 32 foot fishing boat and multiple homes. But two of my children fell away from the church. I would have rather had not had the wealth if I could have had my children active. In the longer run I lost all of the wealth as well.

Unlike Job I wasn’t without sin. I wasn’t doing anything bad, but for sure I had lost my humility. Every time I get a blessing now I remind my self not to boast but to thank the Lord.


Stan

[_marg]

I have similar experiences Moksha, thanks for the thread.

Marg, anything worth having respect for is probably defensible but defending the thing is not the reason you have it. If every time you told someone you loved someone else they demanded that you defend your love for them in exacting rational detail you would quickly tire of it.

I generally do not like analogies because invariably they differ in important respects. Love is not an extraordinary claim. It may or may not exist, but how people behave and treat one another is outward objective evidence that most people have strong emotionally feelings for others which many interpret by the word "love".

Your claim is different. You say God talks to you. And you say but not always in a male voice. So you are talking about something as an "actuality" it really exists as a concrete thing with a voice. The problem with the claim of this thing, is that you are so vague in detail and you don't differentiate how it is different to hallucinations or to emotional feelings in general. So the point is if one is intellectually honest there is no reason to take your claims seriously.

[_The Nehor]

I generally do not like analogies because invariably they differ in important respects. Love is not an extraordinary claim. It may or may not exist, but how people behave and treat one another is outward objective evidence that most people have strong emotionally feelings for others which many interpret by the word "love".

Your claim is different. You say God talks to you. And you say but not always in a male voice. So you are talking about something as an "actuality" it really exists as a concrete thing with a voice. The problem with the claim of this thing, is that you are so vague in detail and you don't differentiate how it is different to hallucinations or to emotional feelings in general. So the point is if one is intellectually honest there is no reason to take your claims seriously.

Not my fault. I blame the English language. I've experienced both. They're different. There are no words that fittingly describe it. Love exists because you can see the objective evidence but for some reason you can't see those huge buildings and large audiences as objective evidence for there being something to this 'religious feeling' or 'belief in God' stuff.

I would contend that the main difference is YOU have felt one and much less (or none) of the other.

[_marg]

I generally do not like analogies because invariably they differ in important respects. Love is not an extraordinary claim. It may or may not exist, but how people behave and treat one another is outward objective evidence that most people have strong emotionally feelings for others which many interpret by the word "love".

Your claim is different. You say God talks to you. And you say but not always in a male voice. So you are talking about something as an "actuality" it really exists as a concrete thing with a voice. The problem with the claim of this thing, is that you are so vague in detail and you don't differentiate how it is different to hallucinations or to emotional feelings in general. So the point is if one is intellectually honest there is no reason to take your claims seriously.

Not my fault. I blame the English language. I've experienced both. They're different. There are no words that fittingly describe it. Love exists because you can see the objective evidence but for some reason you can't see those huge buildings and large audiences as objective evidence for there being something to this 'religious feeling' or 'belief in God' stuff.

I would contend that the main difference is YOU have felt one and much less (or none) of the other.

I didn't say love exists, it may or may not. What I said existed were emotional feelings,some of which some people interpret with a word "love". Each person's interpretation of what constitutes love varies. What definitely exists are emotions. I'm not really sure "love" does exist. Those emotions motivate people to behave in certain ways. A person can claim love and hate at the same moment for the same person. But you claim a greater concept than emotion. You claim God talks to you, and not always with a male voice. Well how often with a male voice, if not always male then a female voice, if not male or female then what sort of voice? You have claimed a scientific object. With your claims you bring God into the realm of the natural world. Emotions are in the realm of the natural world as well. Anything in the realm of the natural world is open to skeptical investigation. If the claims can not meet any sort of evaluation criteria, they are no better than wishful thinking with claims to truth which hold no merit.

[_moksha]

The good thing about having a spiritual/meditative/philosophical nature, is that you can take a cleansing breath and wonder why folks like to argue so much. But that does not matter, because it is ephemeral to your state of tranquility and it cannot really touch you.

When I disbelieved in God, I was still open to input. I felt that I had a duty towards liberal education in seeking to learn new things and in understanding the world around me. I am glad I took that route, because it lead me eventually back towards being a believer - but on my own terms. I imagine with age and maturity, even the most strident disbeliever can come to embrace some definite code of ethics beyond what is imposed on them by society. Maybe they would like to share that?

As a Mormon, I do find myself picking and choosing many items of belief, but I think that is as it should be: It is after all, my own spiritual path. For guidance, I like to run all ideas through the filter of the two great requests, that we love God and one another. Two other ideas that I have found invaluable are from the Buddha's Four Noble Truths: That desire is the root of all suffering and that we should practice moderation in all things.

[_JAK]

Mostly I find myself here on the defensive though. I don't usually set the agenda. With the exception of Coggins (and most of his threads tend toward politics) it is rare that believing LDS start threads here so what we are discussing is dictated by the OP. I will say that in my private religious life sentiments akin to, "Jesus thou Son of God have mercy on me." and "I can't carry this burden anymore, I give up, it's yours" are the bread and butter of my prayers and meditations. Church History, doctrine, etc. come up some in my studies but rarely are they the topics brought here.

I lament the fact that there are not more faith oriented threads. It is unfortunate that many believers (of various stripes)) are on the defensive, while there is a blending of others who are firm in their disbelief and still others who want to stick it to the Mormons, no matter what. With that mix it is hard to ever talk about what we believe or find helpful, without a pot shot being fired. But all of us have our own truths even if they are not shared.

Besides being a Mormon, I find myself being a devout progressive Christian, who receives a feeling of serenity each day during a time of prayer and meditation. During that time, I feel my divine spark being in touch with the Holy Essence and a love for the Universe. If you are not over riddled with skepticism, do any of you ever have a similar feeling?

If not, what are your beliefs?

Yes, I do have similar feelings. It is why I still have a belief in God and Christ, even though I am skeptical of the tenets of the LDS Church. It is also this feeling, combined with prior spiritual promptings and experiences I have had, that keep my faith in God alive, even though I'm not convinced that the LDS Church is the only way back to God.

At this point, I'm not comfortable sharing some of my experiences. They are personal and sacred to me, and I have seen potshots taken at Nehor when he attempted to share some of his experiences. I may be inclined to open up, depending on how this thread develops.

With your permission, Moksha, I would like to move this thread to the Celestial Forum. I would also like to place a preface on it.

This thread is for believing LDS, and for those who have a fundamental belief in a higher power.

If you do not share this belief, or you cannot be respectful to those who do, then please refrain from participating in this thread.

This is not a thread to debate the validity of spiritual experiences. This is a thread about sharing spiritual experiences and beliefs.

liz,

Without heavy moderator control in which comments are deleted, a thread in which only happy talk about religion is permitted is not likely.

For that, you may need to go to church and all sing from the same page, recite the same prayer, say I believe, I believe, I believe all together. Or, you could do it in a private home.

On a bb such as this, prohibition of different views is difficult.

JAK

[_The Nehor]

I didn't say love exists, it may or may not. What I said existed were emotional feelings,some of which some people interpret with a word "love". Each person's interpretation of what constitutes love varies. What definitely exists are emotions. I'm not really sure "love" does exist. Those emotions motivate people to behave in certain ways. A person can claim love and hate at the same moment for the same person. But you claim a greater concept than emotion. You claim God talks to you, and not always with a male voice. Well how often with a male voice, if not always male then a female voice, if not male or female then what sort of voice? You have claimed a scientific object. With your claims you bring God into the realm of the natural world. Emotions are in the realm of the natural world as well. Anything in the realm of the natural world is open to skeptical investigation. If the claims can not meet any sort of evaluation criteria, they are no better than wishful thinking with claims to truth which hold no merit.

So if any claim can't be successfully evaluated skeptically it has no merit? My whole life then is probably a lie. Never happened as it may or may not stand up to skeptical review.