I recently have also been interested in evolution (see my "does evolution scare you") post at MA&D.
Once you take an interest it really is fascinating. It's easy to see that we are cousin's to other great apes. The ressemblance is just too much of a coincidence. Once you understand that if you really trace your geneology that you had an ancestor here fifty thousand years ago, one hundred and fifty thousand, five hundred thousand and so on. You see how rare life in this universe is; I think you come to be amazed. Of course evolution is not faith promoting so if you get it or not while in the LDS faith then I guess they really don't care. Recently I looked up gorilla's hands thinking they might have three fingers and a thumb like thingy. This is what I saw and it amazed me as it looked familiar.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
and gives the idea of falling away from innocence, which I do believe mankind did at some point. We went from natural to "unnatural". Make sense?
Read back what you just wrote to me. Then explain it to me slowly.
Very slowly and see if you can explain it so it will make sense to me.
Okay, symbolically, the idea that Adam and Eve fell away from the garden is symbolically describing when the apes "swung down from the trees." In other words, we went from innocent animals which didn't know better the things we did to evolved humans which understood the ideas of their actions; "The Fall." However, we willingly did this because we desired fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
We didn't evolve from apes.... But I'll ignore that assuming you just were using that as an example? So in your view in human evolution there was a choice to evolve? Is that what you're saying?
That is counter to evolutionary theory. There is no will involved in it.
We fell away from the innocence of being animals not knowing good from evil. Make sense now?
and gives the idea of falling away from innocence, which I do believe mankind did at some point. We went from natural to "unnatural". Make sense?
Read back what you just wrote to me. Then explain it to me slowly.
Very slowly and see if you can explain it so it will make sense to me.
Okay, symbolically, the idea that Adam and Eve fell away from the garden is symbolically describing when the apes "swung down from the trees." In other words, we went from innocent animals which didn't know better the things we did to evolved humans which understood the ideas of their actions; "The Fall." However, we willingly did this because we desired fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
We didn't evolve from apes.... But I'll ignore that assuming you just were using that as an example? So in your view in human evolution there was a choice to evolve? Is that what you're saying?
That is counter to evolutionary theory. There is no will involved in it.
We fell away from the innocence of being animals not knowing good from evil. Make sense now?
Not really.
Okay, so I said we evolved from Apes, though this is not correct. Most people aren't willing to really see what it is we evolved from. Evolution doesn't not stipulate that will is not part of the equation, but it cannot be proven nor disproven, so it is just ignored. There is a point in our evolution when we went from innocent animals to creatures which could tell the difference from good and bad. That is the fall...
Also, the way I understand the evolution of man is that we are one of four great apes and the gorilla is our cousin. We are one line of a branch that has gone on for many millions of years. Our poor cousin neandy's branch ended about thirty five thousand years ago.
Nephi wrote: Okay, so I said we evolved from Apes, though this is not correct. Most people aren't willing to really see what it is we evolved from. Evolution doesn't not stipulate that will is not part of the equation, but it cannot be proven nor disproven, so it is just ignored. There is a point in our evolution when we went from innocent animals to creatures which could tell the difference from good and bad. That is the fall...
Hm. Yes it does stipulate that will is NOT part of the equation.
Nephi can you will yourself to evolve. Right now! DO IT!
Report back with details.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Evolution is absolutely incompatible with traditional Mormon beliefs and teachings, and the words of pretty much every LDS Prophet from Joseph Smith right on down to the present day. And don't let any LDS member tell you otherwise. The only way around this is either to deny that evolution actually happened, which is what the fundie Christian, fundie Jewish, and fundie Muslims do (and probably fundie other religions too), or else to deny that LDS actually believe what LDS have believed since Joseph Smith, and what LDS Prophets have taught down to this very day.
You have to actually deny that Adam and Eve having been the first human beings on Earth is really LDS doctrine.
You have to deny that LDS believe and teach that literally nothing on Earth died before Adam and Eve fell.
You have to do things like rendering Adam and Eve possibly mythological but their "important lessons" yet true.
Basically, the only way to reconcile traditional (as opposed to diehard mopologetic) Mormon teachings with evolution and other science, is to either wipe out one, or the other.
Literally every single LDS believer today who tells you that evolution is compatible with LDS teachings either has no clue what these things actually mean, or else is undercutting the words of past LDS prophets, current LDS teaching materials, and LDS study aids and whatnot in the scriptures. They aren't compatible at all, without eviscerating them.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
thestyleguy wrote:Also, the way I understand the evolution of man is that we are one of four great apes and the gorilla is our cousin. We are one line of a branch that has gone on for many millions of years. Our poor cousin neandy's branch ended about thirty five thousand years ago.
Okay, so we have us, neanderthals, gorillas and apologists. Does that tally right?
Nephi wrote: Okay, so I said we evolved from Apes, though this is not correct. Most people aren't willing to really see what it is we evolved from. Evolution doesn't not stipulate that will is not part of the equation, but it cannot be proven nor disproven, so it is just ignored. There is a point in our evolution when we went from innocent animals to creatures which could tell the difference from good and bad. That is the fall...
Hm. Yes it does stipulate that will is NOT part of the equation.
Nephi can you will yourself to evolve. Right now! DO IT!
Report back with details.
No no. I am not saying that will caused them to evolve, but that there was a desire to know more, and that will evolved mankind into the understanding of Good and Evil. The will did not cause them to physically change. That will caused them to cross a line of understanding good and evil.
Last edited by _Nephi on Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
