Are Mormonism and Human Evolution Compatible?

[_Sethbag]

There's so much to know, it's amazing how much we don't even know we don't know! I find it startling that anyone would believe religious doctrine holds the answers to all questions.

It's much worse than even that. I find it startling that anyone believes that religion holds the answers to any of the questions.

[_Nephi]

by the way: I have never been told by any church authority that I have to literally believe ANYTHING about Adam and Eve.

This doesn't change the fact that what I've said about Adam and Eve is still the doctrine of the LDS church, and is taught, and has been taught, from Joseph Smith right down to the modern day.

Ok, so you feel free to disbelieve LDS doctrine and still remain LDS. Good for you. How does this change the fact that LDS doctrine is in fact wrong? And how does your admitting this and disbelieving it help anything?

Since LDS Doctrine (currently) does not teach to literally believe in Adam and Eve, how does this make it wrong? I never said I disbelieve in the mythology of Adam and Eve. I don't literally believe they existed, but this doesn't mean I don't believe the myth.

To believe a myth means to believe in the lessons taught by that myth.

[_Ray A]

by the way: I have never been told by any church authority that I have to literally believe ANYTHING about Adam and Eve.

This doesn't change the fact that what I've said about Adam and Eve is still the doctrine of the LDS church, and is taught, and has been taught, from Joseph Smith right down to the modern day.

Ok, so you feel free to disbelieve LDS doctrine and still remain LDS. Good for you. How does this change the fact that LDS doctrine is in fact wrong? And how does your admitting this and disbelieving it help anything?

There's a lot of information in this article by Keith Norman: http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/ha ... pter12.htm

Brigham Young believed that Adam and Eve were transported from another planet, and he taught that the literal creation story was "children's stuff".

[_Sethbag]

Well that sure is pretty hilfreakinglarious coming from the guy who thought Adam and Eve were transported from another planet. He still thought it all happened just a few thousand years ago, and that Adam and Eve ushered death into the world, and so forth and so on.

In other words, Brigham Young, our 2nd Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, didn't have a fscking clue, but he did have a fruitful imagination, and the gonads to act assertively, as if he actually knew what he was talking about.

[_The Nehor]

My belief:

"Adam was the first man of all men of the race of Adam."

Everything beyond that is me or someone else guessing. I don't have a timetable. I don't know where Adam came from. Could there have been men before Adam? Sure. However that would be another 'world' in the scriptural sense, not in the sense of it being on another ball of mud in space.

My story begins there.

[_KimberlyAnn]

by the way: I have never been told by any church authority that I have to literally believe ANYTHING about Adam and Eve.

This doesn't change the fact that what I've said about Adam and Eve is still the doctrine of the LDS church, and is taught, and has been taught, from Joseph Smith right down to the modern day.

Ok, so you feel free to disbelieve LDS doctrine and still remain LDS. Good for you. How does this change the fact that LDS doctrine is in fact wrong? And how does your admitting this and disbelieving it help anything?

There's a lot of information in this article by Keith Norman: http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/ha ... pter12.htm

Brigham Young believed that Adam and Eve were transported from another planet, and he taught that the literal creation story was "children's stuff".

He also taught that Adam was God, which has been declared false doctrine, hasn't it? I'd say Young didn't know jack about Adam.

KA

[_Ray A]

He also taught that Adam was God, which has been declared false doctrine, hasn't it? I'd say Young didn't know jack about Adam.

KA

There are very varying views on this. Some are on the FAIR website: http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai002.html (Not to be confused with MA&D).

Eldon Watson (listed with his article "Different Thoughts: Adam God") posted on FAIR for a while. McConkie admitted (privately) that Young taught Adam-God, but believed he was wrong. However, he appeared to retract on this admission later, which was made in a personal letter. It's a conflated subject. As far as I know, Adam-God has never been declared false doctrine, and even Pres.Kimball's statements in the early 70s do not explicitly state this. What he was condemning was Young's statements taken out of context.

[_Tarski]

by the way: I have never been told by any church authority that I have to literally believe ANYTHING about Adam and Eve.

Well, lets fix that then:

Go to Heresy 2:
http://www.lds-mormon.com/heresies.shtml

[_Sethbag]

My belief:

"Adam was the first man of all men of the race of Adam."

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. It's just barely not quite as stupid as saying "the Bible is true because the Bible says so".

You know what? I'm the first man of all the race of Sethbag. I'm also the smartest of all the race of Sethbag, and the most handsome, and the best sexually endowed, and so forth and so on.

So, Adam wasn't really the first homo sapiens, eh? But he was the first man "of the race of Adam", whatever that means? And of course you can feel free to define "race of Adam" as whatever it needs to mean to help your belief system remain somewhat intact.

Everything beyond that is me or someone else guessing.

No, everything including that is you or someone else guessing. You guess because you are relying on "truth" relayed to you by feelings, and from superstition and mythology handed down as God's own sweet Truth, straight from Guy Sajer's Bronze Age goat herders.

You don't believe what the LDS church teaches about this. What you believe is heresy in terms of LDS belief, and as BRM says, there is no salvation in believing a false doctrine. Of course, if we take that to the logical conclusion, there's no salvation in the LDS church, because it's all false doctrine. In fact, there's no salvation at all, because salvation is itself a false doctrine.

You are so wrapped up in maintaining some kind of belief in the LDS church that you are willing to jettison practically anything except some form of the idea that the LDS church is "true", however loosely that term needs to be defined for it to remain plausible.

Your faith is a complete joke. On the one you don't believe the "God-given" truth that the LDS prophets have handed down since the beginning, and on the other hand you won't accept objective reality either, preferring instead to cling to some jerry-rigged, self-defined version of some kind of personal "truth". It's laughable, if it weren't sad.

I don't have a timetable. I don't know where Adam came from.

Nobody knows where Adam came from, because Adam didn't come from anywhere. He was a figment of the imagination.

Could there have been men before Adam? Sure.

There most certainly, inarguable, definitely were men before the Biblical timeframe during which Adam is supposed to have existed. There have been human beings for over a hundred thousand years.

However that would be another 'world' in the scriptural sense, not in the sense of it being on another ball of mud in space.

No, it would be this world. I know Hugh Nibley tried to create this bizarre notion of "another world" because he was trying to somehow allow the LDS church's beliefs to remain plausible in the face of a hostile reality, but the fact is that there were already civilizations on earth, the agricultural revolution had already taken place, the first written languages were already evolving, chieftains and kings had already lead their people to war against the neighboring tribes/proto-nations, etc. before the Biblical timeframe of Adam. It was most certainly not some other world, but was in fact this world, the one we live on, and the people who were on this world were our ancestors, and our civilizations are the descendants of those proto-civilizations.

You are torturing yourself, Nehor. I think part of the reason you can't get a girl is that you insist on an LDS girl, but no LDS girl is going to want to attach herself to an LDS guy who doesn't actually believe in what the Brethren say, doesn't believe in what the LDS church actually teaches, claims he's seen God, angels, and the devil, and all the rest. Perhaps you'd have better luck coming to terms with reality and jettisoning the false mythology of the goat herders, and come to grips with the real world in which we live. Either that, or give up mopologetics, damn the real world, and start believing LDS teachings again, become Peter Priesthood, and I'm sure you'll find yourself a Molly Mormon you can make babies with.

My story begins there.

Your story begins with "once upon a time", like all the other fairy tales.

[_asbestosman]

I dunno about Adam and Eve, but I think the trickiest questions in Mormonism have to do with our physical bodies and weird parts such as an appendix, male nipples, wisdom teeth, and females leg hair.

Basically the problem is that our rather-odd physical bodies are seen as necessary and even good in the eternities. I dunno know about everyone else, but much as I like my body, I don't think the human form is the best form to take for an eternity. Too much of it seems kinda ad-hoc if ya know what I mean.

Actually, somehting that recently struck me was why our bodies have to be such that alcohol intoxicates us and other drugs mess with our minds. Sugar doesn't intoxicate us, so why does alcohol need to? As to other drugs, couldn't our brains use other neurotransmitters? Basically it's a sort of question of evil. Why did God give us bodies that allow us to cause so much harm to others through drunk driving? Why not have alcohol give us a pleasant effect without endangering others? I don't put many people at risk if I woof down another donut, so why if I drink another bottle of whiskey (not that I drink)?

If time is precious, then create bodies that need sleep?