Nephi wrote: Then there are many things people lie about in life. I don't know that my children are mine. Its just an opinion. So to say that I know Mesa and Kepler are my children would be a lie, and any man who has not had a DNA test to prove their children theirs would also be lying.
Anyone who states that there are protons and neutrons who has not proven this through complex quantum math and/or some other concrete evidence of such particles would be lying to say that they KNOW that they exist. Anyone who has never been to space would be lying to say they know space exists (pictures and movies can easily be faked [see Star Wars]).
So to say "I know this church is true" isn't a lie just because someone doesn't believe them (which is what the couter-argument boils down to).
Dude, your ability too conflate non-analogous stuff is awesome to observe.
Cool... I've noticed that when people are presented with analogies that defeat their arguments online they either say its reductio ad absurdum, or ad hominem, or some other logical fallacy, follow this by a general attack of the individual itself, and/or take what they use for support and point out the differences it has to the original argument.
In reality, any analogy will always share similarities and differences with the original argument, and the fact that differences can be seen doesn't automatically negate the analogy. I gave ideas that cannot be proven, and so they are (just like the argument at hand) opinions at best. They are based upon experiences, just like the argument at hand, but no solid proof is presented, or the evidence presented can easily be faked. I am sorry you think they are not analogous, but its fairly plain.
Nephi, your ability to use analogy to "prove" things makes me suspicious. Are you martha and Hugh Nibleys lovechild?
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Nephi wrote:You don't see how the idea that going from an opinion of someone loving you to a fact over time is not similar to the same idea with the church? I don't see it quite as simple. If people in the church HONESTLY BELIEVE THE KNOW the church is true, then its not a lie, correct?
I believe you just restated George Costanza: "It's not a lie if you believe it."
A lie is a lie, no matter how many people believe it.
"George is getting upset!"
Hehe. Good catch Runtu. I've been trying to figure out how to approach Nephi's skewed views. I think he needs some education in Mormonism.
Gaz?! Hello? are you going to correct this cat?[/quote]
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Nephi wrote:You don't see how the idea that going from an opinion of someone loving you to a fact over time is not similar to the same idea with the church? I don't see it quite as simple. If people in the church HONESTLY BELIEVE THE KNOW the church is true, then its not a lie, correct?
I believe you just restated George Costanza: "It's not a lie if you believe it."
A lie is a lie, no matter how many people believe it.
"George is getting upset!"
Hehe. Good catch Runtu. I've been trying to figure out how to approach Nephi's skewed views. I think he needs some education in Mormonism.
Gaz?! Hello? are you going to correct this cat?
Merc, when will you realize that I am not a Mormon. I am just a member of the church. Have you yet to realize I am not your typical Mormon?
Hehe. Good catch Runtu. I've been trying to figure out how to approach Nephi's skewed views. I think he needs some education in Mormonism.
Gaz?! Hello? are you going to correct this cat?
Merc, when will you realize that I am not a Mormon. I am just a member of the church. Have you yet to realize I am not your typical Mormon?
Do you have or plan on obtaining a temple recommend? Do you lan on teaching a gospel Doctrine class?
Your beliefs are vastly different than what is accepted as a Mormon. You are a Mormon poser but likely you believe you are an Agent Provocateur.
No, its not that complex. I am just a man, and I go to the Mormon Church. I go back to get my temple recommend on Sunday (we are converting to barcodes here). I do hope to teach Gospel Doctrine someday (though probably won't), as I have sub'ed a few times. A poser? Agent Provocateur? No. I honestly just like to share my beliefs with others because I don't subscribe completely to any one source. I think that's rather unique within the church, and I hope to show others that its possible to believe and grow in such a way (not conforming 100% to the church, thereby losing your ability to choose) and not fall away down dark paths.
Mercury wrote:Do you have or plan on obtaining a temple recommend? Do you lan on teaching a gospel Doctrine class?
Your beliefs are vastly different than what is accepted as a Mormon. You are a Mormon poser but likely you believe you are an Agent Provocateur.
No, its not that complex. I am just a man, and I go to the Mormon Church. I go back to get my temple recommend on Sunday (we are converting to barcodes here). I do hope to teach Gospel Doctrine someday (though probably won't), as I have sub'ed a few times. A poser? Agent Provocateur? No. I honestly just like to share my beliefs with others because I don't subscribe completely to any one source. I think that's rather unique within the church, and I hope to show others that its possible to believe and grow in such a way (not conforming 100% to the church, thereby losing your ability to choose) and not fall away down dark paths.
To not subscribe 100 percent to the Mormon church is blasphemy. What doctrines do you renounce?
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Mercury wrote:To not subscribe 100 percent to the Mormon church is blasphemy. What doctrines do you renounce?
When did apostates start declaring what is and is not blasphemy within our faith?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Mercury wrote:To not subscribe 100 percent to the Mormon church is blasphemy. What doctrines do you renounce?
When did apostates start declaring what is and is not blasphemy within our faith?
When did Mormons start telling apostates that their extensive experience as a Mormon is invalid?
I've been doing it for years.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Nephi wrote:No, its not that complex. I am just a man, and I go to the Mormon Church. I go back to get my temple recommend on Sunday (we are converting to barcodes here). I do hope to teach Gospel Doctrine someday (though probably won't), as I have sub'ed a few times. A poser? Agent Provocateur? No. I honestly just like to share my beliefs with others because I don't subscribe completely to any one source. I think that's rather unique within the church, and I hope to show others that its possible to believe and grow in such a way (not conforming 100% to the church, thereby losing your ability to choose) and not fall away down dark paths.
To not subscribe 100 percent to the Mormon church is blasphemy. What doctrines do you renounce?
Since I don't have a list of everything sitting in front of me, I couldn't answer it, but (again) I don't look to the church to define myself. I define me, and that which fits me that I know, I take, that which doesn't, I don't. Surely you can't be upset with independent thinking.