Vengeance is Mine, and I have Taken a Little

[_beastie]

The irony of this is that LDS not only reverence their persecuted ancestors, but they've constructed museum-like displays going over the horrors of the persecution they suffered. Is there any active LDS alive who doesn't recognize the phrase: nits will make lice???!?!??!

Yet the mere fact that the Fancher descendants want to control the monument turns them into greedy media whores.

I went back to the thread in question this morning to see who had called rick to repentance. Instead, I discover posters cheering him on.

[_Blixa]

thanks for the bits beastie. I haven't been able to bring myself to read through that yet, but *sigh* suppose I must eventually.
I'll be there on the 11th for the "festivities." Not sure what all I'm attending beyond whatever goes down on the actual 150th anniversary. There are lots of meetings/services and such from the 7 through the 12. Will is speaking at a bookstore (st. george? cedar city? can't remember and its all packed up) on the 12th and he's offered me a ride down before that. I'll probably go by myself--I don't want to shell out for a motel room so if I have a car I can sleep in it if needs be. I'll go back later to work in the SUSC library archives...

[_Yoda]

I went back to the thread in question this morning to see who had called rick to repentance. Instead, I discover posters cheering him on.

See...this is what I don't understand.

Where does this guy get off?

Just because other prophets have screwed up WORSE, Brigham Young is justified in saying what he said?

This makes absolutely no sense.

What I would like to know is this. If the "vengeance is mine" quote truly is a misquote, or was taken out of context, what is the proper context?

And what was it that Brigham Young truly meant by the comment?

This quote also struck me from this poster:

am not tramatized that my native American ancestors were forced off their land, killed, raped, and emasculated as a people by white soldiers and white government. I am not traumatized that my French Canadian ancestors were forced from their homes in the freezing Canadian winter and starved to death at Quebec because American forces ravaged and destroyed my ancestoral home. I am not traumatized by my great grandmother who drowned in the icy waters of the Atlantic when the Lusitania full of innocent men, women, and children was torpedoed by a German you-Boat.

We all know that the Fauncher Party descendents are all 'traumatized' because of greed, bigotry, and a shot at media attention.

Does this, or does this not paint this guy as an unfeeling SOB?

(sorry for the foul mood...haven't had my caffeine yet...and I'm teaching on a Friday, which is my normal day off.)

[_Doctor Steuss]

[...]

Yet the mere fact that the Fancher descendants want to control the monument [...]

For clarification, it is only a contingent of the decedents who want control of the monument. The "Fancher descendants" are hardly a homogenous group (there are even a few *gasp* that are Marmens).

[_beastie]

That old "prophets in the Bible were muuuuch worse" is an apologetic favorite, and could only possibly work on Biblical inerrants. Very few people fit in that group, yet it gets trotted out regularly as if it's actually a meaningful response.

Yes, we are so lucky that BY didn't actually order an entire genocide. Whew! Dodged that bullet!


Blixa, do keep us informed! Return and report!

Steuss - I do realize there are different factions among the descendants. Even with that acknowledged, this post was in very poor taste.

[_Doctor Steuss]

Steuss - I do realize there are different factions among the descendants. Even with that acknowledged, this post was in very poor taste.

Here's an August 21st post of mine from MA&D (about September Dawn) that might be pertinent here:

Lately I've been in a "weird" place as I think about this movie. On the one hand, I am beginning to think that it is a good thing for these victims to have a "voice," even if it is in a (purportedly) biased film. But, on the other hand, I fear that too many will take this Hollywood account as being factual (much like many did with the Divinci Code).

It's a strange dichotomy that I find myself in. I fear that by denouncing the film, and applauding those who also denounce it, that I may end up not giving the victims their proper respect. But at the same time, there’s part of me that thinks the film should be denounced, and those who come to our aid should be applauded and thanked.

This topic has begun to way a bit heavy on my heart lately, and I don’t quite know how to proceed…

I think that I'm not the only LDS person that falls into this, and it's a hard "line-to-tow" (if such a term could be used). The victims (and their decedents) should have their story told. They should be remembered and paid the respect that victims of other atrocities receive. But, as LDS we often find ourselves getting caught up in protecting “our” entity that we often forget that even if their motives might not be the same as ours, or even if their understanding and view of the events are not necessarily supported by the historical record (which many of ours aren’t necessarily supported either), they still feel something. And those feelings are often lost (by myself, and perhaps others) while trying to stay upon the turrets of “Church fortress,” when instead our efforts might be better served by extending fellowship in lieu of defense. Extending understanding instead of denunciation of “historical inaccuracies.” Extending compassion instead of apologetics.

Sometimes in our zeal to garner empathy for ourselves, we seem to forget that we (i.e. “me”) need to extend it to others as well.

[_Scottie]

MMM seems like a super nice guy who asks very logical questions. I've seen the mods and people at MA&D treat him like trash. He got suspended again a few weeks ago. I couldn't understand why except the mods (thunder) spoke and he was gone for a while.. I can't believe he's back there again and likely taking a lot of abuse.

edit in :) (blush) I thought you were talking about the poster mmm. I finally realized what you meant when I went over to MA&D. I need to take my pills and go to sleep.

I think you're thinking of MMS. He was one that Selek and Pahoran jumped on HARD as a troll. He is a very nice poster, but he just wouldn't let that drop, so that's why he got suspended.

[_gloworm]

.........

[_Doctor Steuss]

.........

Is the above a Tanner quote?

Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck...

[_Runtu]

.........

Is the above a Tanner quote?

Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck...

I believe it's a citation from rcrocket's review of Will Bagley's book. [insert rim shot]