Here is what I find so totally funny about this topic...
Lets say a married man down the street was arrested for the rape of a fourteen year old girl, she testifies that the man told her he would kill her family if she didn't have sex with him. She states that her parents knew of the arrangement but agreed to give her to the man so as not to be killed. Then all sorts of women in the neighborhood come forth with similar accusations. A letter is found written by the rapist trying to arrange a secret meeting with another woman. Several woman testify under oath in court that the man had sex with them and they were threatened to go along with it and not tell anyone, teenagers come forth with clear evidence that they too were propositioned and ultimately coerced into having sex with this man. Several of the man's best friends come forth and tell the courts how they tried to help him stop this perverted behavior, and one friend and his wife even caught him in the act in the barn.
The man denies it to the public but then evidence come forth and proves that the man did indeed behave as suggested. The man then claims it was all because God wanted him to behave in such a manner.
Would anyone give this guy a free pass? Would anyone come up with the excuses that are given to Joseph Smith? Would anyone think it was appropriate to justify this guy's behavior?
I just so do not get why Joseph Smith gets a free pass!
~dancer~
If I were a believer I think it would be better to go with the, "Joseph Smith was a horrible man but so were other prophets," rather than the, "he was a great man and nothing untoward happened," excuse. ;-)
Last edited by Bing [Bot] on Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
truth dancer wrote:Would anyone give this guy a free pass? Would anyone come up with the excuses that are given to Joseph Smith? Would anyone think it was appropriate to justify this guy's behavior?
I just so do not get why Joseph Smith gets a free pass!
~dancer~
If I were a believer I think it would be better to go with the, "Joseph Smith was a horrible man but so were other prophets," rather than the, "he was a great man and nothing untoward happened," excuse. ;-)
That's the problem. There's an almost-mythical legend surrounding Joseph Smith. We were raised with the idea that he was sort of Superman and Jesus combined. It's damn hard to let go of such things. It's hard enough to admit the man was human, but the idea that he did such despicable things is too much to take. So, some people prefer mocking us for our puritanical morals to dealing with who and what Joseph was.
truth dancer wrote:Would anyone give this guy a free pass? Would anyone come up with the excuses that are given to Joseph Smith? Would anyone think it was appropriate to justify this guy's behavior?
I just so do not get why Joseph Smith gets a free pass!
~dancer~
If I were a believer I think it would be better to go with the, "Joseph Smith was a horrible man but so were other prophets," rather than the, "he was a great man and nothing untoward happened," excuse. ;-)
That's the problem. There's an almost-mythical legend surrounding Joseph Smith. We were raised with the idea that he was sort of Superman and Jesus combined. It's damn hard to let go of such things. It's hard enough to admit the man was human, but the idea that he did such despicable things is too much to take. So, some people prefer mocking us for our puritanical morals to dealing with who and what Joseph was.
After all, he DID have leg surgery without taking any alcohol for it.
Polygamy in Utah? It was because so many men died crossing the plains. (Note, I NEVER knew Joseph Smith had polygamist wives until I went to RfM)
Did you not ever read D&C 132? If yes who did you think was being referred to when Emma is commanded to accept those given Joseph or be destroyed? His squirrels?
Polygamy in Utah? It was because so many men died crossing the plains. (Note, I NEVER knew Joseph Smith had polygamist wives until I went to RfM)
Did you not ever read D&C 132? If yes who did you think was being referred to when Emma is commanded to accept those given Joseph or be destroyed? His squirrels?
Yes, I do put a large part of the blame on myself. But the church isn't absolved of any here. They DO whitewash lessons and talks to make sure and NEVER mention any of Joseph Smith's plural wives. It's just not talked about.
I'm very much not alone here, by the way. Many of the exmo's I know never knew.
Scottie wrote:Yes, I do put a large part of the blame on myself. But the church isn't absolved of any here. They DO whitewash lessons and talks to make sure and NEVER mention any of Joseph Smith's plural wives. It's just not talked about.
I'm very much not alone here, by the way. Many of the exmo's I know never knew.
I knew he had more than one wife, but I was told repeatedly that these were marriages in name only, sort of a charitable act for destitute, elderly widows. I had no idea that the average age of his wives was 19 or that 11 of the 33 wives were already married at the time he wed them. So, yeah, according to some apologists I was lazy and stupid because I believed what I was taught at church.
Polygamy in Utah? It was because so many men died crossing the plains. (Note, I NEVER knew Joseph Smith had polygamist wives until I went to RfM)
Did you not ever read D&C 132? If yes who did you think was being referred to when Emma is commanded to accept those given Joseph or be destroyed? His squirrels?
Yes, I do put a large part of the blame on myself. But the church isn't absolved of any here. They DO whitewash lessons and talks to make sure and NEVER mention any of Joseph Smith's plural wives. It's just not talked about.
I'm very much not alone here, by the way. Many of the exmo's I know never knew.
I do not say like many apologists that it was your fault for not knowing the historical details. You have to do leg work to find those things and the Church never ever goes there. I had no idea what polyandry was till I really started studying the history on my own. But at least even when I was a little kid I knew about polygamy and that it started with Joseph.
Scottie wrote:Yes, I do put a large part of the blame on myself. But the church isn't absolved of any here. They DO whitewash lessons and talks to make sure and NEVER mention any of Joseph Smith's plural wives. It's just not talked about.
I'm very much not alone here, by the way. Many of the exmo's I know never knew.
I knew he had more than one wife, but I was told repeatedly that these were marriages in name only, sort of a charitable act for destitute, elderly widows. I had no idea that the average age of his wives was 19 or that 11 of the 33 wives were already married at the time he wed them. So, yeah, according to some apologists I was lazy and stupid because I believed what I was taught at church.
Apologists who make that argument are dorks. Because here is the deal. You started to do the leg work on your own and when you did it was a WTF moment. So you were an adult when you started. Do they really expect a primary or mutual age kid to read Rough Stone Rolling, Mormon Enigma, BYU Studies and Dialogue? I was an adult that was a hobby apologist when the poop really hit the fan and I finally said that there is too much that I cannot defend in a number of areas, this one, polygamy, topping the list.