Where I'm at...

[_rcrocket]

I was a genetic cynic and skeptic. That hindered by spiritual development as a young man as I was forced out of my home as a 16-year-old and required to fend for myself since then. But, I was convicted by the Spirit on my mission, and became the direct witness of many miracles on my mission and since then. I have seen the operation of the Spirit within the kingdom firsthand -- and I can contrast that with my experience in being a lawyer and counselor to two other major religious organizations, including one at the "General Conference" level where I deal regularly with the equivalents of general authorities.

I have come to know that the difference between a cynic and a true disciple. A true disciple is not self-centered in any way whatsoever. Although there should be lots more true disciples in the Church, I have never seen a non-self-centered cynic.

That is where I am.

rcrocket

[_Runtu]

I have come to know that the difference between a cynic and a true disciple. A true disciple is not self-centered in any way whatsoever. Although there should be lots more true disciples in the Church, I have never seen a non-self-centered cynic.

That is where I am.

rcrocket

Interesting that, on the one hand, you believe that people ought not to be self-centered, but on the other hand, we're supposed to show the courage of our convictions, no matter the cost to our families and loved ones, which to me sounds pretty self-centered.

Does that make you a disciple or a cynic? I can't tell. ;-)

[_Inconceivable]

I have come to know that the difference between a cynic and a true disciple. A true disciple is not self-centered in any way whatsoever. Although there should be lots more true disciples in the Church, I have never seen a non-self-centered cynic.

That is where I am.

rcrocket

Interesting that, on the one hand, you believe that people ought not to be self-centered, but on the other hand, we're supposed to show the courage of our convictions, no matter the cost to our families and loved ones, which to me sounds pretty self-centered.

Does that make you a disciple or a cynic? I can't tell. ;-)

I may appear at some level to be self centered. My Mormon family wishes I would forsake my disbelief and become one with them again. They call it pride, arrogance, selfishness and a call to repentance. I understand, been there.

It may seem self centered, but I released myself from church activity (and belief) out of personal integrity. I'd like to think that what you see (when you view my life) is what you get. I won't preach a lie and certainly can't pray one.

I am in need of a physician of sorts. I have a beam in my eye. I am engaged in removing it so I may see more clearly. A portion of that beam is the indocrination I received from the Mormon church over a lifetime.

Sethbag reminded me that people are real and that I ought to be wary of bundling my disbelief so as not to lose sight of the good I may contribute while in my quest for additional meaning.

[_Bond...James Bond]

The key part is being functional.....leave the theism/atheism question till you're old and gray (at least around 28 or so) and need an excuse to drink coffee all day pondering stuff.

[_rcrocket]

I have come to know that the difference between a cynic and a true disciple. A true disciple is not self-centered in any way whatsoever. Although there should be lots more true disciples in the Church, I have never seen a non-self-centered cynic.

That is where I am.

rcrocket

Interesting that, on the one hand, you believe that people ought not to be self-centered, but on the other hand, we're supposed to show the courage of our convictions, no matter the cost to our families and loved ones, which to me sounds pretty self-centered.

Does that make you a disciple or a cynic? I can't tell. ;-)

You are confusing principles. First of all, I don't beat my chest and claim that I am a true disciple. I know I must be but I have my signfiicant doubts that I have not cast aside self-centeredness. But, I certainly see the principle being lived in my ward with some people.

Nor am inconsistent poking fun at your fence-straddling. You are in a remarkably perilous position, as opposed to others on this Board. You attend church, thus wearing the mask of activity and commitment to your friends and church associates who depend upon your presence and spirit for their own spiritual development. But, in reality, your actual persona is manifested publicly here, a mocker and critic. (I don't use those terms to insult; you must admit that you are both.) You aren't in the same position as the others who say they have exited the Church and come here to get their fix with like-minding lost. You are in a very tough position with the Lord.

Your position would be improved by either becoming a true disciple or, failing that, minimizing your self-inflicted assault upon your character by showing the courage of your convictions. The world respects most of all the self-sacrificing ascetic, but also respects he who acts without hypocrisy.


rcrocket

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Your position would be improved by either becoming a true disciple or, failing that, minimizing your self-inflicted assault upon your character by showing the courage of your convictions.

A "true disciple" of what? The Church ... or God? They are not necessarily the same, as many TBM's seem to think.

[_Runtu]

Nor am inconsistent poking fun at your fence-straddling. You are in a remarkably perilous position, as opposed to others on this Board. You attend church, thus wearing the mask of activity and commitment to your friends and church associates who depend upon your presence and spirit for their own spiritual development.

I wear no mask of activity or commitment. Why would you think that?

But, in reality, your actual persona is manifested publicly here, a mocker and critic. (I don't use those terms to insult; you must admit that you are both.) You aren't in the same position as the others who say they have exited the Church and come here to get their fix with like-minding lost. You are in a very tough position with the Lord.

I have tried not to be a mocker, though I obviously have done so at times. I think I'm getting over that. But I see nothing wrong with criticizing that which deserves criticism. My conscience feels pretty good most of the time. I've been able to keep my family together without sacrificing too many of my convictions. As Wade might say, I'm trying to find what works. So far, I don't think I'm doing too badly.

Your position would be improved by either becoming a true disciple or, failing that, minimizing your self-inflicted assault upon your character by showing the courage of your convictions. The world respects most of all the self-sacrificing ascetic, but also respects he who acts without hypocrisy.

rcrocket

We're all hypocrites in many ways, but pretending to be a believer is not one of my faults.

[_Yoda]

I wear no mask of activity or commitment. Why would you think that?

Bob suffers from RDD---Reading Deficit Disorder.

He can't keep all of the critics straight.

For the record, Bob, Runtu has always been straight-forward with his family, and his Church leaders about where he stands. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[_Runtu]

I wear no mask of activity or commitment. Why would you think that?

Bob suffers from RDD---Reading Deficit Disorder.

He can't keep all of the critics straight.

For the record, Bob, Runtu has always been straight-forward with his family, and his Church leaders about where he stands. Sorry to burst your bubble.

True. I wouldn't be too hard on Bob. I think he is genuinely concerned about my spiritual well-being. He's just blunt about it.

[_AmazingDisgrace]

Is there a commandment somewhere that says, "thou shalt not attend any LDS church meetings save thou canst give the correct answers to the first three temple recommend questions."?

If Runtu's leaders are aware of his situation, and they don't ban him from coming to church, why should it matter to a believing member with no stewardship?