What do the Brethren think of FAIR?

[_Trevor]

Some months ago, an entry was posted at the blog for BYU's business school. In this entry, the author wrote of the need for a business plan for efforts to fight the wave of internet anti-Mormonism. Basically, the effort was essentially what the More Good Foundation attempts to do: flood the internet with positive Mormon sites so that critical sites would be buried in web-search results.

In that article, the author let slip an interesting little tidbit of information: namely, that the LDS Church monitors over 6000 "anti-Mormon" websites on a regular basis.

While it may be true that the GAs as a whole have little interest in these discussion boards, you can bet that someone takes interest in them in an official capacity. Such efforts are taken as having been commanded long ago in a revelation to the prophet Joseph Smith:

1 And again, we would suggest for your consideration the propriety of all the saints gathering up a knowledge of all the facts, and sufferings and abuses put upon them by the people of this State;
2 And also of all the property and amount of damages which they have sustained, both of character and personal injuries, as well as real property;
3 And also the names of all persons that have had a hand in their oppressions, as far as they can get hold of them and find them out.
4 And perhaps a committee can be appointed to find out these things, and to take statements and affidavits; and also to gather up the libelous publications that are afloat;
5 And all that are in the magazines, and in the encyclopedias, and all the libelous histories that are published, and are writing, and by whom, and present the whole concatenation of diabolical rascality and nefarious and murderous impositions that have been practised upon this people—
6 That we may not only publish to all the world, but present them to the heads of government in all their dark and hellish hue, as the last effort which is enjoined on us by our Heavenly Father, before we can fully and completely claim that promise which shall call him forth from his hiding place; and also that the whole nation may be left without excuse before he can send forth the power of his mighty arm. (D&C 123)

So do I think the Church exerts any efforts with regard to its cyber-critics? YOU BET.

[_beastie]

Some months ago, an entry was posted at the blog for BYU's business school. In this entry, the author wrote of the need for a business plan for efforts to fight the wave of internet anti-Mormonism. Basically, the effort was essentially what the More Good Foundation attempts to do: flood the internet with positive Mormon sites so that critical sites would be buried in web-search results.

I remember a thread devoted to that entry, and also seem to remember the entry disappeared shortly thereafter. Is my memory correct?

[_Trevor]

I remember a thread devoted to that entry, and also seem to remember the entry disappeared shortly thereafter. Is my memory correct?

You are correct, sir, but the cat is out of the bag! Sure, we cannot detail exactly who is taking official interest in Mormonism's online presence and that of its detractors, but we can be assured that there is such interest. Surely, this assigment is committed to the oversight of a Seventy, at the very least. I can't imagine that it goes on without any GA knowledge. It is an effort, after all, that is enjoined and sanctified by holy writ!

[_harmony]

I remember a thread devoted to that entry, and also seem to remember the entry disappeared shortly thereafter. Is my memory correct?

You are correct, sir, but the cat is out of the bag! Sure, we cannot detail exactly who is taking official interest in Mormonism's online presence and that of its detractors, but we can be assured that there is such interest. Surely, this assigment is committed to the oversight of a Seventy, at the very least. I can't imagine that it goes on without any GA knowledge. It is an effort, after all, that is enjoined and sanctified by holy writ!

A couple of things: we have been assured by the Man himself that our leaders are not at all interested in what we have to say, and couldn't care less what happens on anti-Mormon websites. They have much more important things to do (like spend billions on malls and such). And the SCMC is only a clipping service. Now you know.

Also: you might know beastie by another nick... maybe you knew her as Trixie or 7ofniine? Anyway, she's not a sir.

[_rcrocket]

So do I think the Church exerts any efforts with regard to its cyber-critics? YOU BET.

I would be very interested in specific instances of which you are aware in which somebody was disciplined for posting internet criticisms against the Church. "YOU BET" implies that you have the information. I think it would be hard for you to actually offer a bet to support your assertion because (1) you don't have particularly examples and (2) you are a cowardly anonymous poster, probably active on Sundays, and there is no way I can collect.

I have heard of only one instance where action has been taken by local officials for internet apostasy. But I am not aware of any centralized activity to hunt down posters.

Your supposition that the Church keeps track of anti-Mormon attacks is correct. I have worked in the archives and know archivists there. Somewhere in my library (I have looked for it and couldn't quite find it) Hugh Nibley writes about gaining access to these particular archives. He remarked that the collection was huge, but unused. The Church apparently deposits information there but has no mechanism to do anything about it. The collection is available to private scholars.

But, I'd like some examples to support your "YOU BET" assertion.

[_harmony]

So do I think the Church exerts any efforts with regard to its cyber-critics? YOU BET.

I would be very interested in specific instances of which you are aware in which somebody was disciplined for posting internet criticisms against the Church.

rpcman.

"YOU BET" implies that you have the information. I think it would be hard for you to actually offer a bet to support your assertion because (1) you don't have particularly examples and (2) you are a cowardly anonymous poster, probably active on Sundays, and there is no way I can collect.

You haven't been reading Trevor much, have you? He's Julian Apostate. He may be active on Sundays, but I doubt it's in the LDS church. More like flag football in the park!

I have heard of only one instance where action has been taken by local officials for internet apostasy. But I am not aware of any centralized activity to hunt down posters.

That's not what you asked for. You asked for evidence of specific incidents of church discipline for internet criticism of the church. rpcman is a specific incident.

Your supposition that the Church keeps track of anti-Mormon attacks is correct. I have worked in the archives and know archivists there. Somewhere in my library (I have looked for it and couldn't quite find it) Hugh Nibley writes about gaining access to these particular archives. He remarked that the collection was huge, but unused. The Church apparently deposits information there but has no mechanism to do anything about it. The collection is available to private scholars.

But, I'd like some examples to support your "YOU BET" assertion.

Done.

[_beastie]

I have a personal example - my boyfriend. He'd already been inactive in the church for years before finally losing faith altogether. Occasionally hometeachers would visit him, but he had no contact with church leadership and had never attended his local ward after he moved to a new state.

When he lost faith in the church, he created a website called "and then I cried", which detailed his loss of faith. He openly used his real name.

After the site had been up about a year, he was called in to see the stake president (I have to verify that detail, it may have been the bishop, but I believe it was the SP). He was told that unless he dismantled his site immediately, he would be excommunicated.

My boyfriend did not care at all about whether or not the ex'd him, but his family did. They were upset enough about his loss of faith, for him to be ex'd or resign from the church would have emotionally harmed them even more. So he took the site down.

I'll provide more details and corrections, if needed, after I see him tonight.

[_moksha]

In that article, the author let slip an interesting little tidbit of information: namely, that the LDS Church monitors over 6000 "anti-Mormon" websites on a regular basis.

If and when Mitt is elected, it will be interesting to see the tie in with any NSA monitoring. The reach could be extended to all sites as well as all forms of electronic communication. Of course my suggesting this could simply mean my foil helmet is defective.

[_guy sajer]

Even if you don't believe in a religion anymore, it's wrong to blatantly disrespect something that is held sacred by others.

Why? Some sacred beliefs are dangerous, harmful, evil, or outright silly. They cry out for disrespect.

Polygamy being one prominent example.

Other sacred beliefs do merit respect, and we should accord it to them.

For what it's worth, I agree that what Norton did is probably inappropriate.

On another subject, I thought that Prof P. was going to Europe for a month, or at least that is what he said (if I remember correctly). What's he doing posting on MADD board? Things a bit slow in the Old World?

[_Trevor]

A couple of things: we have been assured by the Man himself that our leaders are not at all interested in what we have to say, and couldn't care less what happens on anti-Mormon websites. They have much more important things to do (like spend billions on malls and such). And the SCMC is only a clipping service. Now you know.

Also: you might know beastie by another nick... maybe you knew her as Trixie or 7ofniine? Anyway, she's not a sir.

First, the you are correct sir is a quotation, and I have forgotten where it came from. I was not attributing a particular gender to beastie. Anyhow, thanks for the heads up, because I had no idea which gender beastie is.

Second, who is "The Man"? Are you referring to DCP?