Watch Out! your daughters friend might be the Devil.

[_Sethbag]

For the nevermos reading this thread, it's interesting to recall that for most of Mormon history since these things even became a possibility, it's been taboo amongst most of the membership for:

A man to get a vasectomy, and this applies even if he already has ten kids.

A woman to get her tubes tied. I recall when this came up after a neighbor woman with whom my mom was friends (neighbor was nevermo) got her tubes tied, and my mom was scandalized by it.

To practice birth control. The last probably 20 years or so this has changed, to where now probably many if not most young LDS couples may well practice a form of it, but when my parents were having their kids, using birth control was very much looked at in the church as a sin, for exactly the kinds of sentiments quoted in the OP. My mom got so sick after each pregnancy that they decided to stop after four, and she got a diaphragm, and if I'm not mistaken, it took a discussion with the bishop to get the "OK" to do this.

If you've never seen Saturday's Warrior, you ought to at least listen to it. There's a song there where they mock the "zero population growth" sentiment of some people in the late 60s/early 70s. It certainly conformed to LDS notions back then that rather than try to limit the growth in population, people should have as many kids as they possibly can. The reasons provided above apply, ie: there are zillions of our spirit brothers and sisters waiting in Heaven to come down to a mortal body, and it's our job to provide as many mortal bodies as we possibly can to help God fulfill his designs. There's this notion that there is no natural limit to the number of people who ought to exist on Earth at one time; that God will always provide a way to support them all.

Interestingly, the only way we've been able to provide enough food for the people we have now is to engage in large scale industrial farming, involving extensive use of machines, fuel, chemical fertilizers, motorized transport and processing, etc. If a natural disaster of some sort were to disrupt, say, our energy or our transportation sector, I think there would be mass starvation at least in the US and Europe.

by the way, I should add that attitudes toward birth control and I think probably surgical sterilization have really loosened up in the church in the last couple of decades. It really doesn't come up as a topic anymore, but it certainly did in my parents' generation.

[_beastie]

Yeah, when I joined the church in 1976 birth control was still a hot topic. I had home teachers at BYU who informed me that the reason why women shouldn't get their tubes tied was because they'd be resurrected that way in the next life, thereby ensuring that they would not be eligible for the CK. Families of 8+ kids were common, and viewed as the more faithful. Families with less than four kids were looked at somewhat askance. I taught a family in France that had been seriously interested in joining the church, to the extent that they listened to the elders (first mistake) who taught them that God wanted you not to use BC, and he wouldn't send a baby to you unless you could handle it. They stopped BC and she got pregnant immediately, ensuring they would never join the church. It was still debated among missionaries whether or not we should tell people about not using BC.

I think things started to change when it became more and more difficult to support such large families. Did more people turn to church welfare? That would be interesting to find out. But somehow, I think the teaching did begin to change.

But that doesn't mean that young Mormons are not pressured to get married and start reproducing ASAP.

Also, when I was a missionary, it was quite common for young male missionaries to be told, at their exit interviews, to set a goal to be married within six months. I remember church GAs coming to BYU for devotionals and yelling at the men to not be so darn picky, buck up and get married, fercriminy'ssake.

I think they're afraid they will... have... (whisper) sex... if they don't get married fast. And they're probably right. Of course, which is worse? Fornication or a young, stupid, marriage? I know what I'd vote for.

[_Jersey Girl]

I think they're afraid they will... have... (whisper) sex... if they don't get married fast.

That's not what it looks like from the outside looking in, beastie.

[_harmony]

I remember church GAs coming to BYU for devotionals and yelling at the men to not be so darn picky, buck up and get married, fercriminy'ssake.

I think they're afraid they will... have... (whisper) sex... if they don't get married fast. And they're probably right. Of course, which is worse? Fornication or a young, stupid, marriage? I know what I'd vote for.

I bet that was a fun devotional for all the women who were the "sweet sisters" who were being overlooked. That's just what I'd want to hear, from a revered leader. Good grief.

[_beastie]

That's not what it looks like from the outside looking in, beastie.

what does it look like from the outside looking in?

I bet that was a fun devotional for all the women who were the "sweet sisters" who were being overlooked. That's just what I'd want to hear, from a revered leader. Good grief.

Oh, he let the sisters have it too, basically telling them to lay off the candy bars and lose a few pounds.

I wish I could remember which GA it was... it was a big name one, because the auditorium was packed. If I recall correctly, I was on a date with someone I hadn't gone out with before...I don't think we went out again. :O

[_harmony]

That's not what it looks like from the outside looking in, beastie.

what does it look like from the outside looking in?

I bet that was a fun devotional for all the women who were the "sweet sisters" who were being overlooked. That's just what I'd want to hear, from a revered leader. Good grief.

Oh, he let the sisters have it too, basically telling them to lay off the candy bars and lose a few pounds.

I wish I could remember which GA it was... it was a big name one, because the auditorium was packed. If I recall correctly, I was on a date with someone I hadn't gone out with before...I don't think we went out again. :O

You went on a date to a devotional? That says a lot about the sorry state of affairs at BYU.

[_beastie]

You went on a date to a devotional? That says a lot about the sorry state of affairs at BYU.

No kidding. In retrospect, it seems to me that Mormonism ages its young people early. It's almost as if they want them to instantly transform from child to responsible, middle aged, fuddy-duddy adult.

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl

That's not what it looks like from the outside looking in, beastie.

beastie

what does it look like from the outside looking in?

It looks like part of a recipe for life long dependency on the church.

[_beastie]

It looks like part of a recipe for life long dependency on the church.

Yeah, that works, too.

[_Sethbag]

I think they're afraid they will... have... (whisper) sex... if they don't get married fast.

That's not what it looks like from the outside looking in, beastie.

Yeah, but that's what it looks like from the inside.