Mission President in France talks about self-abuse

[_Mister Scratch]

"Scratch is winning."

This is serious stuff, doggone it.

I sure am! Mwahahaha!!! Indeed, the pernographic pop-up *was* "incredible"!!! 'Twas I who made it so that the missionary "had to go home and masturbate"! Long live Scratch!

Puh-lease. I *did*, however, find it quite interesting how in-depth the speaker's knowledge of online porn seemed to be. He seemed especially preoccupied with the nature of this "pop-up porn" that "appeared" in his "home." It seemed almost as if he could not stop thinking about it......

[_Runtu]

"Scratch is winning."

This is serious stuff, doggone it.

I sure am! Mwahahaha!!! Indeed, the pernographic pop-up *was* "incredible"!!! 'Twas I who made it so that the missionary "had to go home and masturbate"! Long live Scratch!

Puh-lease. I *did*, however, find it quite interesting how in-depth the speaker's knowledge of online porn seemed to be. He seemed especially preoccupied with the nature of this "pop-up porn" that "appeared" in his "home." It seemed almost as if he could not stop thinking about it......

As mentioned, it's unlikely anyone would have pop-ups on their computer if they hadn't at some point come across a porn web site. Maybe they were just doing research...

[_beastie]

Ok, it's official, this Mission President is a fecking arsehole. I'm listening to the extended audio sections right now, and he's really raking them over the coals. They're "only" reporting in the low 40s of work hours per week, and he's demanding to know where the other 20 hours are. He wants to know why they're not placing a Book of Mormon every day, why they're not teaching more discussions, etc. Of course, he says, it's their fault. They're not doing what the Lord has commanded. If they were, they'd be seeing more success.

This is exactly what I experienced in the same mission, back in 79-81. So I can see that their tactic hasn't changed. It's still all just the luck of the draw whether you end up with an arsehole mission president or a rational one who undestands that it's not the missionaries' fault that french people just are not interested in Mormonism.

I suspect, though, that with the pressure on high, that even decent human beings turn into arseholes in these low producing areas.

Nothing's changed at all. Those poor missionaries. It does make me sick. They're donating literally years of their lives, and engaging in extremely frustrating, even depressing* work, and this is the thanks they get.

*the majority of missionaries I knew in my mission were obviously depressed, even if we could not openly admit it. Depression was a normal, even rational, response to the situation. We were knocking on strangers' doors hours and hours every day, with little to no positive feedback, and lots of negative feedback, often irate feedback. Then we were being emotionally beat up by our leaders.

And yes, we were expected to work 60 PLUS hours a week, and were harassed when we did not. Ironically, it didn't make a difference in number of converts. I was companions with one french sister missionary the last month of her mission. She was well known for working at least 70 hours every week of her entire mission. We still had zero success, and by the end of her mission, she only had around two baptisms, just like I did at the end of mine.

Another sister was equally well known for working 70 plus hours a week. She went home with ZERO baptisms.

Our most successful elder, in terms of baptisms, was lazy as all get out. But he was quebecois, with an adorable accent, and was extremely good looking and charming. A really nice guy. Anyone want to guess why his baptisms were so high? Ooo la la!!!

[Anonymous]

"This is agency. You all can do whatever you want. You can go out and rob a bank tomorrow, you can drink a can of beer. You can sleep in until 7 o'clock."

Isn't that kinda sick? His discussion is so black and white, and he's indoctrinating them so harshly, that suddenly sleeping in as a missionary until 7 o'clock, is talked about in the same way as robbing a bank, as is drinking a can of beer. Earlier in the talk he reinforced that a cup of coffee from time to time really will keep someone out of the Celestial Kingdom. Man, the Mormon God really is a jackass.

"Because we have all sinned, we are kept out of the Celestial Kingdom, be it one cup of coffee, or whatever."

"You tell one little white lie, and you won't be in the Celestial Kingdom."

[_Runtu]

"This is agency. You all can do whatever you want. You can go out and rob a bank tomorrow, you can drink a can of beer. You can sleep in until 7 o'clock."

Isn't that kinda sick? His discussion is so black and white, and he's indoctrinating them so harshly, that suddenly sleeping in as a missionary until 7 o'clock, is talked about in the same way as robbing a bank, as is drinking a can of beer. Earlier in the talk he reinforced that a cup of coffee from time to time really will keep someone out of the Celestial Kingdom. Man, the Mormon God really is a jackass.

Well, to be fair, maybe it's just this MP who is a jackass. It's kind of depressing to hear this kind of severe guilt-tripping. beastie is right that a lot of missionaries are depressed precisely because they have this kind of crap thrown at them.

[_Sethbag]

I don't know about you guys, but I used to be very concerned that there would little things I'd done in the distant past, which I had never repented of, and I had forgotten that I'd ever done them. And with attitudes like this MP's, I knew that these sins would keep me out of the Celestial Kingdom. But I was in a bind, because I couldn't remember even having committed them anymore, so I couldn't repent. This MP's teachings are a recipe for depression amongst people who take them seriously. We're commanded to be perfect, and then told that even the slightest imperfection will result in total failure. If that's not a setup for depression, I don't know what is.

Also, according to this MP's teaching, having now drunk a 23.5 oz. can of 50/50 lemonade and tea, I now can't go into the Celestial Kingdom unless I "repent" of it. What a joke. It's just so petty it's not even funny.

[_Runtu]

I don't know about you guys, but I used to be very concerned that there would little things I'd done in the distant past, which I had never repented of, and I had forgotten that I'd ever done them. And with attitudes like this MP's, I knew that these sins would keep me out of the Celestial Kingdom. But I was in a bind, because I couldn't remember even having committed them anymore, so I couldn't repent. This MP's teachings are a recipe for depression amongst people who take them seriously. We're commanded to be perfect, and then told that even the slightest imperfection will result in total failure. If that's not a setup for depression, I don't know what is.

Also, according to this MP's teaching, having now drunk a 23.5 oz. can of 50/50 lemonade and tea, I now can't go into the Celestial Kingdom unless I "repent" of it. What a joke. It's just so petty it's not even funny.

I'll give you that. The Mormon God is extremely petty.

[_Jason Bourne]

I don't know about you guys, but I used to be very concerned that there would little things I'd done in the distant past, which I had never repented of, and I had forgotten that I'd ever done them. And with attitudes like this MP's, I knew that these sins would keep me out of the Celestial Kingdom. But I was in a bind, because I couldn't remember even having committed them anymore, so I couldn't repent. This MP's teachings are a recipe for depression amongst people who take them seriously. We're commanded to be perfect, and then told that even the slightest imperfection will result in total failure. If that's not a setup for depression, I don't know what is.

Also, according to this MP's teaching, having now drunk a 23.5 oz. can of 50/50 lemonade and tea, I now can't go into the Celestial Kingdom unless I "repent" of it. What a joke. It's just so petty it's not even funny.

I'll give you that. The Mormon God is extremely petty.

Rather the way the rigid obedient obsessed LDS culture is extremely petty. When I read the scriptures I actually find a god that is rather merciful, loving and forgiving. But leaders spin the obedience deal over and over. I think that this is starting to shift a bit. I do here more about Jesus, grace, mercy, atonement and so on.

[_The Nehor]

"This is agency. You all can do whatever you want. You can go out and rob a bank tomorrow, you can drink a can of beer. You can sleep in until 7 o'clock."

Isn't that kinda sick? His discussion is so black and white, and he's indoctrinating them so harshly, that suddenly sleeping in as a missionary until 7 o'clock, is talked about in the same way as robbing a bank, as is drinking a can of beer. Earlier in the talk he reinforced that a cup of coffee from time to time really will keep someone out of the Celestial Kingdom. Man, the Mormon God really is a jackass.

"Because we have all sinned, we are kept out of the Celestial Kingdom, be it one cup of coffee, or whatever."

"You tell one little white lie, and you won't be in the Celestial Kingdom."

Actually it's lack of repentance on any of the above that keeps you out.

[_beastie]

I certainly felt stressed over "sins" I didn't even remember or recognize.

I once had a dream at BYU that summed up a great deal about my emotional response to the demands and pressures of Mormonism. There is just so much you're always being told you should do - and that sins of OMISSION are just as bad as sins of commission. There was no way to do it all, and I was stressed, even before having a family. Anyway, I dreamed that the second coming had arrived, and all the students were gathered into the Marriott Center and some representative was calling out the list of names who "made it" into the CK. I was on the edge of my seat, literally in a state because I had no idea whether or not I had "made it". I had no idea whether or not I was good enough for God. I did hear my name call and relief washed all over me. In retrospect, it was ridiculous for me to feel that way. I was a good, decent person who loved God with all my heart and was doing my darnedest to please him. I should not have felt stress over whether or not the best I could do was good enough for God.

This was one thing I appreciated about mainstream christianity when I dabbled in it after leaving the church - the stress is more on grace than works. I do think Mormonism underrates mainstream christianity on this point. They do care about works, but in terms of "making it" (to heaven) the emphasis is pretty much on grace. I know that *technically* Mormonism is about grace, too, but in practice, it really isn't.

So, in a way, the stress over my mission - failing to achieve what the leaders kept telling me I should achieve if only I had enough faith, or in some way were "good enough" - and not knowing why I was failing, but still internalizing that failure - was a microcosm of my entire experience as a Mormon.

And, by the way, something is really wrong with these men who get up there and rail on these kids like this. I think they're half mad due to sexual deprivation and constant stress.