Iranian Pres Speech...

[_Dr. Shades]

To prevent that "take-over" mighty-arms and closed minds will not do what helping-hands and open minds/hearts will. Dialogue>>>> talk>>>> negotiate>>>> compromise>>>> LET LIVE!!!!! Where there's life,and DIALOGUE there's hope.

So you agree with Neville Chamberlain.

Defeat never brings real peace.

Thank goodness Generals Eisenhower and MacArthur didn't agree with you.

Unfortunately, you guys really blew it again...

Who are "you guys," and how did they "blow it?"

[_Jason Bourne]

And now our this fellow is rubbing shoulders with another despot, Chavez.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Doc, i appreciate it's hard to understand my stance--if that's the correct word???--because it is difficult for me to articulate it, i suppose in a rational manner, that doesn't seem to represent me as one not tuned to reality. Unfortunately, i can't even assure you that i'm very much of a realist. At the same time i'm not locked into believing there are no better solutions to current challenges than those used in the past. So to continue the discussion i'll be bold below ;-) :

To prevent that "take-over" mighty-arms and closed minds will not do what helping-hands and open minds/hearts will. Dialogue>>>> talk>>>> negotiate>>>> compromise>>>> LET LIVE!!!!! Where there's life,and DIALOGUE there's hope.

So you agree with Neville Chamberlain. RM: I might be a bit off-the-wall but not far enough off the beam to know NC was wrong. They/we didn't have peace in our/their time. If i recall his statement went some what to that affect??

Defeat never brings real peace.

Thank goodness Generals Eisenhower and MacArthur didn't agree with you.

RM: Also Montgomery & Churchill, eh ;-) Once again we reference the past. My vision is of the future for coming generations, who i hope will find other solution to conflict resolution. My concern is: those who we today depend on for leadership do not have the brains, or balls, to imagine a better way to what many people pray for. "Peace in our time."

Well, i think we both 'might agree', "prayer doesn't make peace". Am i correct in my assumption? To invest more in military power with newer more diabolical means of human slaughter, and habitat destruction has forever been a false premise justified by past practice and more $$'s alocated to the military complex profiteers. Haliburton comes to mind. Do you personally not think there might be a better way to settle disagreements and satisfy the needs of aggressors?

Unfortunately, you guys really blew it again...

Who are "you guys," and how did they "blow it?"

To your last question: "You guys" is a generalization referring to the group-mentality of folks who see little but their own need to express hostility. An act that in MY opinion did nothing to resolve anything on the world stage. It might have given some a sense of satisfaction of, "...we showed him!!" Yes, "you-guys" did. And, many others as well.

I respectfully suggest, when another such opportunity presents itself, to indulge an "enemy"--and it will--listen, and learn what's at the centre of "their" beef, and discontent. You might find they too have legitamacy...from their perspective and experience.

WAR IS NOT A GOOD ANSWER! No more than beating anyone into submission to assert one's right-by-might. A common practice in family dynamics in this past century, and still is if one believes stats. Generally attributed to mental and emotional imbalance... Hmmn, Warm regards, Roger

[_richardMdBorn]

Roger Threatens genocide RM: Threats made in posturing & pravado, made by anyone, I don't take too seriously. I think some tend to make too much of such... Recall Kruchev (SP?) hammering on his desk in the UN with the heel of a shoe? And, when flying over Detroit boasting, "...we'll bury you..."

Richard Yes, and people thought that Hitler was a joke. Read about the 13th Imam theology if you don’t take it seriously.

Roger Your fear mongering is repugnant to me. I respectfully suggest, "...if they take power.

Richard That’s precisely what they called Churchill. They called him a fear monger and a war monger. Your ideological brethren in Europe are facing this problem today. Is it fear mongering to mention that Theo Van Gogh was brutally murdered by a Muslim on a street in Amsterdam. That Sharia law as interpreted in many Muslim countries mandates death for Muslims who convert to other religions.

[_Roger Morrison]

Roger Threatens genocide RM: Threats made in posturing & pravado, made by anyone, I don't take too seriously. I think some tend to make too much of such... Recall Kruchev (SP?) hammering on his desk in the UN with the heel of a shoe? And, when flying over Detroit boasting, "...we'll bury you..."

Richard Yes, and people thought that Hitler was a joke. Read about the 13th Imam theology if you don’t take it seriously.

Roger Your fear mongering is repugnant to me. I respectfully suggest, "...if they take power.

Richard That’s precisely what they called Churchill. They called him a fear monger and a war monger. Your ideological brethren in Europe are facing this problem today. Is it fear mongering to mention that Theo Van Gogh was brutally murdered by a Muslim on a street in Amsterdam. That Sharia law as interpreted in many Muslim countries mandates death for Muslims who convert to other religions.

Richard, you are quite justified, in your mind, to believe as you do. I don't doubt Your beliefs. They are just not mine. Nor obviously, are mine yours. You believe in 'Biblical miracles'. I do not believe in 'Biblical miracles'. You probably believe in Armegedon--i'm not sure that you do?? I do not... Neither do i believe in the "second coming"--you might??

What i do believe is that there is no 'happening' without a 'cause'. What we see happening around us--'good' & 'bad'--is not without reason. I also believe we can effect the 'happenings' for 'good' or 'bad' by our actions/reactions.

My concern with most conflicting-happenings--is that, generally speaking, we do not effect them positively. We tend to react out of fear in defence of our 'material/actions' or our 'thinking/thoughts/philosphy'... With little thought of 'giving' as we concentrate either on 'taking' or 'keeping'... It seems to have ever been thus; as you so ablely point out.

I believe that historical pattern need not continue... It is impossible for me be as fatalistic as you, and most others here, seem to be. It appears difficult for you (plural) to imagine any element in 'the enemy' to which you can appeal. They not seeming even worthy of your company/time/consideration or civility? In that attitude absolutely nothing positive is gained. In fact it is beyond rude and ignorant it is cowardice. If that assertion offends you, so be it.

IF you can/will get past the person-thing here, yourselves and Ahmadinejad, to consider the principles involved, you might see the probabilities of effective negotiations being a better means to peaceful cohabitation than force, fear and human sacrifice. I respectfully suggest more serious study of the causes of past wars will be more efficatious than studying their strategies... Warm regards, Roger

[_richardMdBorn]

I believe that historical pattern need not continue... It is impossible for me be as fatalistic as you, and most others here, seem to be. It appears difficult for you (plural) to imagine any element in 'the enemy' to which you can appeal. They not seeming even worthy of your company/time/consideration or civility? In that attitude absolutely nothing positive is gained. In fact it is beyond rude and ignorant it is cowardice. If that assertion offends you, so be it.

IF you can/will get past the person-thing here, yourselves and Ahmadinejad, to consider the principles involved, you might see the probabilities of effective negotiations being a better means to peaceful cohabitation than force, fear and human sacrifice. I respectfully suggest more serious study of the causes of past wars will be more efficatious than studying their strategies... Warm regards, Roger

Roger, would it have been possible on 9/11 for the passengers on the hijacked planes to appeal to the hijackers that they were violating Islam by their actions? Let's take a concrete example. AA Flight 11 took off around 8:00 am EDT. The hijack took place around 8:15 and the plane crashed into the WTC at 8:46. Between 8:15 and 8:46 there was a time when the hijackers and passenger were in contact (on this plane it appears that from around 8:25 on all five hijackers were in the cockpit). Were effective negotiations possible between the passengers and the hijackers?

[_Roger Morrison]

Richard, i just lost a lengthy post re your question, while using a library system, so i'll shorten it up: Your questions re 9-11 seem absurd as the answers are obvious. We know what, where, when, who and how. They are a matter of fact.

I suggest again, the question "WHY", in that event, and every tragic event, at home and abroad, should consume honest researchers... I'll say no more now... Warm regards, Roger

[_richardMdBorn]

Richard, I just lost a lengthy post re your question, while using a library system, so I'll shorten it up: Your questions re 9-11 seem absurd as the answers are obvious. We know what, where, when, who and how. They are a matter of fact.

I suggest again, the question "WHY", in that event, and every tragic event, at home and abroad, should consume honest researchers... I'll say no more now... Warm regards, Roger

My question is a serious one. Are there situations where negotiation is useless.

[_Roger Morrison]

Richard, to your question:

My question is a serious one. Are there situations where negotiation is useless.

I think we both know the answer to that trite question. What is your point? I hope you don't base all decisions to to take initiative on the the probability of exceptions-to-the-rule?

Like the idiotism, "oh THAT will NEVER work! We tried it once."

MY trite question: Are there situations where/when negotiations are NOT "useless"? ;-) Warm regards, Roger, hoping this goes through, from another library????

[_Dr. Shades]

I suggest again, the question "WHY", in that event, and every tragic event, at home and abroad, should consume honest researchers... MY trite question: Are there situations where/when negotiations are NOT "useless"? ;-) Warm regards, Roger, hoping this goes through, from another library????

Let's cut to the chase, Roger. Rather than sitting here playing 20 questions, why don't you just give us your answers to the above two questions?

(Also: A person is only allotted a finite amout of quotation marks to use in his or her lifetime. You've exceeded your quota many times over. The same goes for question marks.

Next time, so the rest of us can make better sense of your writing, please don't use any quotation marks unless you're actually typing out the words that someone else said beforehand. And, for the next little while, no more than one punctuation mark per sentence. Deal?)