21 Unconvincing Arguments for God

[_James Muir]

Well, I see nothing wrong with being meek, or humble. Just because you're limitless is no reason to brag -- everyone else is just as limitless as you are! The position of meekness or humility is one of servitude to the unlimited potential of others. It's like giving them a boost to reach who they are. I'm a fan of the meek, although I'm not quite ready to join their ranks just yet.

We all know how obnoxiously difficult it is to teach a kid who is so afraid of being embarrassed for not knowing already that he keeps saying; yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know, yeah, uhhuh, yep, yep, yep. It was hillarious to me to see Mormon after Mormon act like this when I opened up knowledge that I was 100 certain they had never ever heard before. I think this same fear in the gut is manifested by educated people who are way too quick to give their own definition to everything under the sun as if they already know all things possible.

Christ said do not fear those who can kill the body only but fear him who after he kills the body can cast the soul into hell. yeah, fear him. The many hells all knowing men imagine are phantoms and shadows of nothing. Only that one God who has power and can certainly place you where he wants and there is nothing you can do to prevent this is the real inventor of Hell. He owns the patent.

Men do not own a single breath that they take for granted still. Every breath is a gift of God. From there the gifts and powers of God excell one after another unto the great joy of worhipping God in his very presence. Most haters of God will be hawking up somthing vile to spit at the thought but they are just too dumb. Like dumb*** little brats who are going to learn nothing, ever.

[_Zoidberg]

Well, I see nothing wrong with being meek, or humble. Just because you're limitless is no reason to brag -- everyone else is just as limitless as you are! The position of meekness or humility is one of servitude to the unlimited potential of others. It's like giving them a boost to reach who they are. I'm a fan of the meek, although I'm not quite ready to join their ranks just yet.

We all know how obnoxiously difficult it is to teach a kid who is so afraid of being embarrassed for not knowing already that he keeps saying; yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know, yeah, uhhuh, yep, yep, yep. It was hillarious to me to see Mormon after Mormon act like this when I opened up knowledge that I was 100 certain they had never ever heard before. I think this same fear in the gut is manifested by educated people who are way too quick to give their own definition to everything under the sun as if they already know all things possible.

[...]

Most haters of God will be hawking up somthing vile to spit at the thought but they are just too dumb. Like dumb*** little brats who are going to learn nothing, ever.

Hey meek person, perhaps your infinite humility will help you find an answer to the following question: what makes you think you're opening up new knowledge to anyone? What makes you think you are authorized to be the teacher of truth? Perhaps it's your humility talking when you pronounce these imaginary God-haters, whoever you think they are, to be dumb and incapable of learning? Looks like it's been a while since you've read Matthew 5:22.

Skeptics don't claim to be in exclusive possession of truth, by the way.

So who is really being meek here, I wonder?

[_Jersey Girl]

mav

To Jersey Girl: You caught me in oversimplifying. Neurotheology is simply a group of people (scientists hopefully) that are studying what has been known and tested in the scientific community for some time. Basically this, shock a part of the brain, get results. This area of the brain is only different in that you typically have a spiritual experience of some kind when you shock it. That's the point.

mav,

I'll get back to the remainder of your comments but first, this question. What has shocking part of the brain got to do with meditative states?

[_keene]

mav

To Jersey Girl: You caught me in oversimplifying. Neurotheology is simply a group of people (scientists hopefully) that are studying what has been known and tested in the scientific community for some time. Basically this, shock a part of the brain, get results. This area of the brain is only different in that you typically have a spiritual experience of some kind when you shock it. That's the point.

mav,

I'll get back to the remainder of your comments but first, this question. What has shocking part of the brain got to do with meditative states?

Since I've never known mav to ever post on any forum more than twice, allow me to answer in his behalf.

Basically, stimulating certain areas in the brain can get the same results as meditation. I don't have nearly as much research on the subject as Mav does, but he's shared with me quite a bit... It's almost to the point where they can artificially choose any state of consciousness, and close to immediately put you in it, depending on what areas are stimulated, and at what frequency.

So, what the neurotheologists are testing is how to create a spiritual event with brain stimulation.

I, for one, hope that they come out with a spirit-hat once it's done. Put the hat on, have a spiritual experience. Sounds good to me!

We all know how obnoxiously difficult it is to teach a kid who is so afraid of being embarrassed for not knowing already that he keeps saying; yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know, yeah, uhhuh, yep, yep, yep. It was hillarious to me to see Mormon after Mormon act like this when I opened up knowledge that I was 100 certain they had never ever heard before. I think this same fear in the gut is manifested by educated people who are way too quick to give their own definition to everything under the sun as if they already know all things possible.

Christ said do not fear those who can kill the body only but fear him who after he kills the body can cast the soul into hell. yeah, fear him. The many hells all knowing men imagine are phantoms and shadows of nothing. Only that one God who has power and can certainly place you where he wants and there is nothing you can do to prevent this is the real inventor of Hell. He owns the patent.

Men do not own a single breath that they take for granted still. Every breath is a gift of God. From there the gifts and powers of God excell one after another unto the great joy of worhipping God in his very presence. Most haters of God will be hawking up somthing vile to spit at the thought but they are just too dumb. Like dumb*** little brats who are going to learn nothing, ever.

... Pride goeth before the fall?

The fact still remains that the concept of Hell is unprovable, and seems like a scare tactic. This "God" fellow, who refuses to make himself known except to those who already believe he exists, says, through word-of-mouth, that if we don't worship him, we'll suffer for eternity? Sounds like the bogey-man for adults. No matter how you fancy up the language, it just seems silly.

[_Jersey Girl]

keene

Since I've never known mav to ever post on any forum more than twice, allow me to answer in his behalf.

Basically, stimulating certain areas in the brain can get the same results as meditation. I don't have nearly as much research on the subject as Mav does, but he's shared with me quite a bit... It's almost to the point where they can artificially choose any state of consciousness, and close to immediately put you in it, depending on what areas are stimulated, and at what frequency.

So, what the neurotheologists are testing is how to create a spiritual event with brain stimulation.

There is more than one type of spiritual event. Are you saying that all can be reproduced in a lab? What about love responses? There are numerous types of love responses. Do you think that those too, can be reproduced in a lab via brain stimulation?

[_keene]

keene

Since I've never known mav to ever post on any forum more than twice, allow me to answer in his behalf.

Basically, stimulating certain areas in the brain can get the same results as meditation. I don't have nearly as much research on the subject as Mav does, but he's shared with me quite a bit... It's almost to the point where they can artificially choose any state of consciousness, and close to immediately put you in it, depending on what areas are stimulated, and at what frequency.

So, what the neurotheologists are testing is how to create a spiritual event with brain stimulation.

There is more than one type of spiritual event. Are you saying that all can be reproduced in a lab? What about love responses? There are numerous types of love responses. Do you think that those too, can be reproduced in a lab via brain stimulation?

There are numerous ways to stimulate the brain.

So, yes.

EDIT: Mav just sent me this:
http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm? ... tchy_title

[_Jersey Girl]

keene

There are numerous ways to stimulate the brain.

So, yes.

Then mav hasn't made a case (positive or negative) for the existence of either god or love.

[_keene]

keene

There are numerous ways to stimulate the brain.

So, yes.

Then mav hasn't made a case (positive or negative) for the existence of either god or love.

God is a concept. BELIEF is a physical event, as is the emotion of love. Two very different things.

Perhaps I should be more clear...

The emotion that most people consider love occurs as a reaction to a perceived event -- Some flowers, a cute face, a sexy new car. We have been able to isolate the chemicals that are released as part of that reaction, and that are responsible for the actual feeling. Dopamine, serotonin, pheremones, these chemicals, at certain levels, create the emotion of Love. Basically, Love is a physical event.

BELIEF in God works very much the same way. Certain chemicals get released into the brain (DMT being the major one that I know about), and the emotion or sensation of spirituality is the result.

The difference between the belief and God, is that God is the perceived event at which the belief arises. However, the same spiritual state can be acheived through meditation, art, fear, and just about any event at which emotions run high.

To say that God exists because of the part of the brain that perceives it, is saying that Love IS the flowers, or the face, or the car. It is the persons thoughts about God that incite the spiritual sensation.

Does that make sense?

[_Jersey Girl]

keene

There are numerous ways to stimulate the brain.

So, yes.

Then mav hasn't made a case (positive or negative) for the existence of either god or love.

God is a concept. BELIEF is a physical event, as is the emotion of love. Two very different things.

Perhaps I should be more clear...

The emotion that most people consider love occurs as a reaction to a perceived event -- Some flowers, a cute face, a sexy new car. We have been able to isolate the chemicals that are released as part of that reaction, and that are responsible for the actual feeling. Dopamine, serotonin, pheremones, these chemicals, at certain levels, create the emotion of Love. Basically, Love is a physical event.

BELIEF in God works very much the same way. Certain chemicals get released into the brain (DMT being the major one that I know about), and the emotion or sensation of spirituality is the result.

The difference between the belief and God, is that God is the perceived event at which the belief arises. However, the same spiritual state can be acheived through meditation, art, fear, and just about any event at which emotions run high.

To say that God exists because of the part of the brain that perceives it, is saying that Love IS the flowers, or the face, or the car. It is the persons thoughts about God that incite the spiritual sensation.

Does that make sense?

No, I don't think you're making sense at all. How willing are you to really get into this? I need to know before continuing because I think you contradicted yourself all over the place in the above comments as did mav in his comments.

Let me know if you're willing and I'll show you what I'm talking about.

[_keene]

No, I don't think you're making sense at all. How willing are you to really get into this? I need to know before continuing because I think you contradicted yourself all over the place in the above comments as did mav in his comments.

Let me know if you're willing and I'll show you what I'm talking about.

I'll keep going as long as the thread keeps popping up to the top :)