God and a fraud?

[_mentalgymnast]

Fruits are in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

On that I think we can agree.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Mentalgymnast wrote:

Rejection of the Book of Mormon Mormon results in people such as Keene subscribing to mind altering substances and non-belief in God as being "the way". Rejection results in loss of faith in the truth claims of the LDS church. Rejection often results in atheistic/agnostic tendencies. Rejection may result in a greater tendency towards alternate lifestyles, including hedonistic/immoral behaviors.

As I try to take a global/wider look at things, and again under the assumption that there is a God, I have a difficult time conceptualizing of a God that would let something OF THIS MAGNITUDE exist/proliferate in the name of his son. Of course, the underlying assumption being made here is that Jesus was who he said he was. And in my mind, at this point in my life, I cannot see the long range hope for humanity as being anything more/less than hopeless, in an eternal sense, if a loving God didn't foreordain someway for fallen man to be redeemed from what appears to be a tremendous fall from grace.

You are being serious, I take it. Of course, some of us here have no assumption that there is a God. In fact, most of the world has no assumption that God exists as you believe him to exist. So, you are making a pretty big assumption, my friend.

You are not taking a global/wider look at things. Your view is extremely myopic in nature. And typical of a lot of Mormons. You aren't saying anything that we haven't heard before from you guys.

Leaving the faith leads to using mind-altering substances.

Leaving the faith leads to our developing atheistic/agnostic tendencies. LOL You are cracking me up. You know you are an atheist as well, unless you are telling me you believe in all the other myriad of gods out there in the world. Duh!

Leaving the faith leads us to hedonism, too! Oh my!

And you are stuck believing in the gold Bible and using the gold Bible to tell us what a "heathen" is? You crack me up.

Tremendous fall from grace? So, you can't wrap your head around the idea of evolution, either? Really pathetic, actually.

Wake up, literally, and smell the coffee, brother. Oh wait! You might become a heathen. That's right.

Because the gold Bible told you so. Oh and a old suit from the world conquest building in Salt Lake City, told you so, too. Pretty worldly view. Not!

LMAO.

If the Book of Mormon is true, you're blowing a lot of hot air. by the way, I can wrap my mind around the idea of evolution. Why not? Why do you use words such as "pathetic"? Does it strengthen your cause?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

I have never claimed to have proven it a fraud. I'm sure you do have reasons that make sense to you.

As I have stated in the beginning post, yes.

Regards,
MG

[_beastie]

hat a God would allow a fraud of this proportion to thrive or even exist IN THE NAME OF HIS SON AND AS A WITNESS OF HIS SON is preposterous.

I think it's pretty preposterous that God allows millions of children to die neglected and abused, too. And how about all the genocide that's taken place on this earth? And horrible natural effects that slaughter millions.

And you think it's preposterous God would allow a fraud to stand in the name of his son?

[_barrelomonkeys]

Rejection may result in a greater tendency towards alternate lifestyles, including hedonistic/immoral behaviors.

What immoral behaviors do you subscribe to hedonists?

For me it's about maximizing pleasure that doesn't necessarily translate to 'immoral' behavior. Of course I maximize pleasure by ensuring that those around me are well tended for as well.


What other specific 'alternative lifestyles' are you thinking of specifically?

[_barrelomonkeys]

What are 'atheist/agnostic tendencies'?

Are these something I should be concerned about? Uh! Oh!

[_Ren]

For me it's about maximizing pleasure that doesn't necessarily translate to 'immoral' behavior. Of course I maximize pleasure by ensuring that those around me are well tended for as well.

Indeed.

First, it's usually assumed that hedonism simply equals immoral. Often the idea is based on the words in an old book.
(NOTE - not saying that hedonism can't be immoral on a case by case basis. Just saying that equating hedonism with immorality is ludicrously simplistic).

Secondly, it is assumed that hedonism is selfish in nature. But if what a person wants is hedonism for all, that inherently isn't true.

[Guest]

Sorry! I just keep finding more and more! I wish I'd done this all in one post. My apologies! :)

Assumptions are to made as one evolves towards any kind of belief system or non-belief. You make certain assumptions about God as you evolve towards unbelief.

And you presume to know what assumptions are made? Could it be that each individual has a different conception of God? I certainly know that I was NEVER indoctrinated to have a belief in God and yet still lost whatever childish faith I had in Him - much like the Easter Bunny and tooth fairy - and am pretty certain that you don't have the privilege of speaking for me about what assumptions I may or may not make about God.

Claims come a dime a dozen, and 99% of them are false. So how does the Book of Mormon mess anything up if we choose a worldly lifestyle?

CFR! ;P J/K

In your view what is a 'worldly lifestyle'?


*edited cause I typed the sentence two times in a row! Ack! That hedonistic lifestyle does do something to ya!*

[_barrelomonkeys]

For me it's about maximizing pleasure that doesn't necessarily translate to 'immoral' behavior. Of course I maximize pleasure by ensuring that those around me are well tended for as well.

Indeed.

First, it's usually assumed that hedonism simply equals immoral. Often the idea is based on the words in an old book.
(NOTE - not saying that hedonism can't be immoral on a case by case basis. Just saying that equating hedonism with immorality is ludicrously simplistic).

Secondly, it is assumed that hedonism is selfish in nature. But if what a person wants is hedonism for all, that inherently isn't true.

The end result of hedonism is utilitarianism where maximum pleasure is for all. We are ALL hedonists for the most part. We make choices to maximize pleasure and attempt to avoid pain. It has nothing to do with morals. Unless I don't understand precisely what religionists mean when they use this term?

[_Ren]

The end result of hedonism is utilitarianism where maximum pleasure is for all.

Exactly. But I get the distinct impression that many religious people see hedonism as a 'selfish' attitude. (i.e. it's all about MY pleasure...)

We are ALL hedonists for the most part.

Agreed again. Hedonism also isn't just about the 'obvious' pleasures.

It has nothing to do with morals.

Well, I think it can do, just because it could conflict with other moral systems. For example, if the most good is to do with pleasure, is it 'good' to force pleasure on somebody who doesn't want pleasure? Is that the point where the hedonist might say "Well, what is 'pleasure' for them is different than for others"
"Their 'pleasure' is polarized" - is perhaps a way to say it.

...well, maybe so. But then you're just saying that the person wants freedom of action. That then - to me - becomes Libertarianism with a different name.

It also obviously conflicts with many other moral systems - quite often the ones that want you to feel bad about enjoying certain aspects of life...

Unless I don't understand precisely what religionists mean when they use this term?

They probably mean it the same way you do. They just see it differently. They see consequences (mainly spiritual) where others don't...