Missionaries at German University campuses

[_Sethbag]

It is my personal opinion that the whole Caffine thing started up in the eighties when everyone began discovering caffine in their drinks, I think all the Mormons at the time all went "Oh, that's why God says we can't have Coffee and Tea". If that were the case we could drink decaff. We cannot drink decaff.

The caffeine thing was already current in the early 70s when I was a little kid. I specifically remember my parents not allowing us to have any caffeinated beverage because it was, in their opinion, against the Word of Wisdom. I still remember, to this day, at a dinner at I think the Bonanza restaurant, going to get a refill of soda by myself and sneaking a Mr. Pibb refill instead of root beer, and feeling really wicked about it, but doing it anyway with a devilish sort of grin. Hehe, I scored a Mr. Pibb, and the parents didn't even notice! Woot! I was like five years old at the time.

[_mormonmistress]

The caffeine thing was already current in the early 70s when I was a little kid. I specifically remember my parents not allowing us to have any caffeinated beverage because it was, in their opinion, against the Word of Wisdom.

So you can't even drink green tea?

[_gramps]

The caffeine thing was already current in the early 70s when I was a little kid. I specifically remember my parents not allowing us to have any caffeinated beverage because it was, in their opinion, against the Word of Wisdom.

So you can't even drink green tea?

Definitely no green tea. Can you imagine how that goes over in Japan?

Herbal tea is o.k. apparently though in the word of wisdom it says no hot drinks. That was later interpreted by one of the illustrious prophets in the 20th century to mean coffee and tea.

[_gramps]

Gaz wrote:

It is my personal opinion that the whole Caffine thing started up in the eighties when everyone began discovering caffine in their drinks, I think all the Mormons at the time all went "Oh, that's why God says we can't have Coffee and Tea". If that were the case we could drink decaff. We cannot drink decaff.

I don't think that is true, Gaz. I know lots of good Mormons who drink decaf. They don't seem to interpret the Word of Wisdom the way you do. But, that shouldn't be any surprise to all of us here, I guess.

[_mormonmistress]

Definitely no green tea. Can you imagine how that goes over in Japan?

Herbal tea is o.k. apparently though in the word of wisdom it says no hot drinks. That was later interpreted by one of the illustrious prophets in the 20th century to mean coffee and tea.

And I always thought green tea was herbal! So how can herbal tea be OK if it's still tea?

[_gramps]

The card given out is no different than the ones they hand out here, there are twelve different ones, many missionaries try to collect all twelve, some are harder to get than others.

All of them dirrect a person to the church website: http://www.Mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/

If they don't want people to call them Mormons, why would they use Mormon in the website address? Any ideas, Gaz? Aren't they assisting in making it difficult to wean people off the Mormon moniker?

Anyone?

[_gramps]

It makes me cringe, gramps. When I was a missionary, the push was to find creative ways other than the typical door approach to draw interest. I had a "companion" once who had one of those personalities that no one like to be around. He went down the path of looking for the Lords blessings as he consulted with the spirit over new finding methods. He came up with this survey asking questions much like those you listed that just begged for sarcastic replies. So I just trailed behind him, door to door, as he tried to get survey data. Because of his awkward personalitiy, it just made the situation worse. Not only did you have a dumb question from a total stranger dressed like an FBI man, but asked by someone with negative people skills. It was a horrifying week for me. To make it worse, on the last day of his trial week, right at the end, after everyone had sacked us with extra frustration and sarcasm, my "companion" decided to try one more house which would put us right at the time we were suppose to stop tracting. I pointed this out to him but he invited me to have faith. So one more. And guess what? This lady was totally excited to take the survey, invited us in, and they went over every question with enthusiasm, she and her husband, for an hour and a half. They were total reborns. At the end, my comp brought up the Book of Mormon and I was dreading it because I knew that they didn't know who we were but if they did know, they wouldn't have let us in. The woman got this shocked look on her face and sort of weasled their way out of comitting to the discussions. But he won, I have to give him credit, his survey got us into that one door when I was sure it would fail completely.

Hi Gadianton! Yeah, we had the survey thing too. But it came right from the top, our Mission President, Richard M. Eyre. He designed a survey using his incredible marketing skills earned at Harvard Business School. We were promised that it wasn't just a way to get in to the door and that the results would be published in a newspaper or something like that.

Of course, they never were published, at least not while I was in the mission and I left after Eyre.

Of course, they were created to just get us in the door. I admit, it worked. The survey was long and at the very end we surprised them with our message. They generally weren't too happy at that point, but, hey, we got in! Whatever it takes for the Lord, right?

[_Roger Morrison]

Gaz wrote:

First: In regards to Caffine, The Word of Wisdom states you can't have Coffee and Tea, it does not say why. The reason is, is that there is no reason other than that we have been asked (ordered) not to. Men like George Burns lived to be ancient while smoking and driking coffee. Whats in the drinks and smkes is of no consequence, its a test of our obedience. (Bold and 'ordered' added by RM)

As usual Bro, i appreciate your perspective. As for the bolded: Is this to demonstrate faith, blind-faith, obedience, or ??? I wonder how many LDS edicts might fall under that category? I had a bishop who had the same idea about 'Garments'?? Other suggestions?

I suggest "ordered" because this is not an inconsequential 'choice' to a Mormon. "Ask" is a rather benign--lacking ill effect--word. There are certainly "ill effects" to a Mormon who does not follow the rules of the game. A TR is dependent on affirming 'faith/obedience' in a TR interview... You know how important a TR is to a TBM.

OTOH, to some it is simply a ticket to a family event when a loved one becomes a spouse of another. To others of course it is of absolutely no consequence a what-so-ever wherever...

Personally, IMSCO, edicts of this kind, LDS or otherwise, contavene the laws of "God"--the Universe. Those laws are inviolable. The consequence of ignoring them are readily observable, generally speaking. One doesn't have to wait for another life in another sphere/realm to be rewarded or not. I think living by the findings/proofs of good science has done more for humanity than attempting to live in the primitive ignorance that depended on Priest Crafts. Blah Blah..

I digressed. As for the 'cards': You make them sound like Hockey/Baseball cards? Really, a full deck ;-) Are the distributers of such cards/tracts themselves simply prooving their "obedience", as earlier suggested by abstainance of "hot drinks"? Although, "asked" and 'called' might be a bit closer in interpretation? Warm regards, Roger

[_Blixa]

It is my personal opinion that the whole Caffine thing started up in the eighties when everyone began discovering caffine in their drinks, I think all the Mormons at the time all went "Oh, that's why God says we can't have Coffee and Tea". If that were the case we could drink decaff. We cannot drink decaff.

The caffeine thing was already current in the early 70s when I was a little kid. I specifically remember my parents not allowing us to have any caffeinated beverage because it was, in their opinion, against the Word of Wisdom. I still remember, to this day, at a dinner at I think the Bonanza restaurant, going to get a refill of soda by myself and sneaking a Mr. Pibb refill instead of root beer, and feeling really wicked about it, but doing it anyway with a devilish sort of grin. Hehe, I scored a Mr. Pibb, and the parents didn't even notice! Woot! I was like five years old at the time.

Oh even further back. I can remember the Word of Wisdom = no caffeine back to the 50's. And it wasn't just somone's opinion that's what it meant. I'm pretty sure my parents and grandparents could confirm that association back even further in their lifetimes. But of course, back then, things were more clear cut and defined: none of this "its just someone's opinion not doctrine" s*** that HAS been invented recently.

As for decaff, Gaz, are you kidding? Decaff has been acceptable FOREVER. Have you never heard of Postum, either? Good Mormons (which used to be a larger group back when things were both more clearly stated and liberally understood) have long used cofee substitutes and decaffineted beverages to stay within the WoW strictures.

I remember an old boyfriend who had a very TBM brother. The brother, a convert, sorely missed Coca-Cola. When decaffeinated Coke came on the market, he told me he got down on his knees and thanked God. For him that was not just a turn of phrase or humorous exageration but an indication of just how seriously and precisely he understood the WoW. And, I might add, his understanding wasn't something he arrived at individually ("opinion") but because that was how things had been presented to him by his ecclesiastical superiors.

[_gramps]

Definitely no green tea. Can you imagine how that goes over in Japan?

Herbal tea is o.k. apparently though in the word of wisdom it says no hot drinks. That was later interpreted by one of the illustrious prophets in the 20th century to mean coffee and tea.

And I always thought green tea was herbal! So how can herbal tea be OK if it's still tea?

Herbal tea is O.K. because there is no caffeine. Is your head spinning yet? I thought so. There really is no rhyme and reason to it all. Just no coffee and no tea. Don't think beyond that.!

But, maybe I am wrong about the green tea. Someth8ing is in it and it does give a buzz. Whether it is actually caffeine, I don't know. Maybe Shades can help us out with the rule on green tea, since he was in Japan.

Calling Dr. Shades for clarification as to the treatment of green tea as part of the Word of Wisdom.