Romney asked if Salt Lake will influence him.

[_truth dancer]

By the way, as an aside, every President for many years have had Billy Graham in to Chat and consult with them, Do you think if Romney were President and he invited Gordon Hinckley to the white house for a fireside chat that would be acceptable?

Hi Jason...

Interesting question!

I have to admit I would NOT be comfortable if Mitt invited Hinckley to the white house. Not at all.

I think GBH is a nice man don't get me wrong.

But my personal observation and experience suggests that the LDS church has a very strong hold over its believing members, and knowing the Mitt has made covenants to God regarding the church... (to consecrate himself, his time talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed him and with which he may bless him, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion), makes me shudder.

Maybe I'm wrong and maybe he doesn't agree with this, or no longer agrees with the church, or no longer wears garments, or holds to those covenants, or whatever.... nevertheless this covenant is pretty clear and if Mitt still holds to it, I'm uncomfortable for sure!

I do not know if Bush made promises/covenants to God that he would give everything he had and everything he will have to the building up of Billy Graham's church... ya know?

~dancer~

[_Trevor]

They were cynical? How do you know this? Or could it be this is just your own judgment call that could not at all be well, cynical.

You may choose to believe that two conservative Republicans would honestly approve of the federal government's interference in people's religion. I say this kind of inconsistency calls for inquiry into their motive. I provided you with the most obvious motivation for doing so. I don't think it takes cynicism to call this for what it is.

I am blind because I conclude differently then you. I see.

It seems to me that you are obstinate, and that in your obstinacy you choose to play blind. Very punny, by the way.

I am sorry. I recall one. Can you enlighten me on the other?

I'll let you do your own work on that. Go back and think carefully about our exchange. Hold your hand in front of you and every time you see me point to what I accept as evidence, extend a finger. Count the total number of fingers when you reach the last piece of evidence.

By the way, as an aside, every President for many years have had Billy Graham in to Chat and consult with them, Do you think if Romney were President and he invited Gordon Hinckley to the white house for a fireside chat that would be acceptable?

Oh, so you see the two as comparable. That's interesting. I do not. I think it would be singularly unwise for Romney to invite Hinckley down to Washington to confer with him. I hope he never has the opportunity to do so.

You see, I don't recall the last time Billy Graham claimed to have unique authority to act as the oracle of God for all humankind. Nor do I recall a president that made a covenant in an exclusive temple to dedicate his entire life to a Kingdom of God for which Billy Graham is the earthly representative. I don't recall Billy Graham acting as the supreme governing authority of a Church whose history includes being a theocratic kingdom outside of the reach of the United States.

There is a reason why people are uncomfortable with these things, and it is not gratuitous. Mormons may believe their own persecution complex, but distrust of Mormon governance comes from decades of history in which Mormon leaders sought to lead lives essentially separate from American authority, and to exercise supreme power over members of their Church in conflict with the laws of the land.

You may believe that everything is OK today, and that Americans have no reason to be wary of a Mormon president. The real question is this: has the LDS Church done enough to convince others that there is nothing to fear? I don't think they have, and until they do, I don't think they will secure the trust of the nation. Personally, I think there are enough red flags to disqualify (implicitly) Romney from the presidency.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

"No president could possibly take orders or even input from religious leaders telling him what to do,'' Romney, a Mormon, said today on CBS's ``Face the Nation'' program. ``My church wouldn't endeavor to tell me what to do on an issue, and I wouldn't listen to them on an issue that related to our nation.''

Sounds to me as if Mitt just broke one or two of his temple covenants. Wonder if his bishop will call him in for a talk ....

[_CaliforniaKid]

my dad's been doing genealogy and informed me today that I am Mitt Romney's eighth cousin once removed.

[_richardMdBorn]

I think he'd fit right in with American culture. He's religious, so war wouldn't be a problem, as it never seems to be for America. The ultimate hypocrisy of most religious people in power, is their sanctification of war and killing. I always wondered how they can reconcile the killing of thousands of innocent people with "thou shalt not kill" and their so called Christian beliefs. Justify it all you like, it's still killing. I haven't read anywhere in any religious text where the "thou shalt not kill" directive has come with a disclaimer saying "except in this or that instance"...

The text is accurately translated as, "thou shalt not murder."

[_karl61]

I think he'd fit right in with American culture. He's religious, so war wouldn't be a problem, as it never seems to be for America. The ultimate hypocrisy of most religious people in power, is their sanctification of war and killing. I always wondered how they can reconcile the killing of thousands of innocent people with "thou shalt not kill" and their so called Christian beliefs. Justify it all you like, it's still killing. I haven't read anywhere in any religious text where the "thou shalt not kill" directive has come with a disclaimer saying "except in this or that instance"...

The text is accurately translated as, "thou shalt not murder."

I guess whether it's murder or killing depends on who wins the war or what side the rifle you are on.

[_Gazelam]

Theres a new book out that you might be interested in. Prophets visiting with presidents isn't anything new.



In this groundbreaking work, Mike Winder presents the story of America's presidents and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From Washington to Bush, each President and their relationship with the Mormons is explored, and we see the Church rising from obscurity to political clout as America's-fastest growing religion.
Familiar anecdotes are retold -- Wilford Woodruff's vision of the Founding Fathers; Joseph Smith calling on Martin Van Buren; Ezra Taft Benson serving in Eisenhower's cabinet; and Gordon B. Hinckley receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom from George W. Bush. And, there is much, much more.

You will learn of the wartime President who checked out the Book of Mormon from the Library of Congress; of the President who spoke at a funeral in the Washington, DC Stake Center; the President who attended school in the Kirtland Temple; and the President who had two high priests in his cabinet. Read about what FDR wrote to Churchill about the Mormons; the President who grew up in Ohio with Lorenzo Snow; the Apostle who spent his honeymoon in the White House; and the President who quoted Alma in a letter he wrote to a missionary.

One President asked that his sick wife be given a priesthood blessing. Another received a priesthood blessing himself shortly before his death. Two Presidents have attended Family Home Evenings with two different Apostles. One former President helped the Church missionary program in Africa. There was the President who telephoned Spencer W. Kimball during a stake conference to ask him a few questions, and the President who would spontaneously land Air Force One just to check on his friend David O. McKay.

Which President had one hundred Primary children sing "I Am a Child of God" to him on the White House lawn? What did John Quincy Adams think of the Mormons after meeting with two Apostles? What future Church president was in the room when McKinley was assassinated? Which Presidents had their baptisms for the dead performed in the Mississippi River? And, which President did Heber J. Grant refer to when he said, "I think he was nearer converted to the truth than any man who ever occupied the presidential chair?" Find these answers and more within Presidents and Prophets.

[_Zoidberg]

I would prefer that my next president be a man who does not receive direction from and follow the suggestions of a decidedly non-democratic organization in Utah.

What do you have against a woman president?

I don't have anything against a female president. I think it would be great! I don't like Hillary's policies, though.

If the Republicans would wake up, and rally behind a competent female candidate, I would definitely support her.

I don't trust Romney, either. I like Rudy Giuliani.

I hate to make a political plug, but I like Dennis Kucinich. Unfortunately, I doubt he has a chance, which is really too bad. He would totally rock as a president, IMHO.

And Romney is a flip-flopping jackass, nothing more. Not only do I disagree with his views, but I have no guarantee that he's not going to switch them to something even more stupid once he becomes president. That alone would make me suspicious of anyone. Of course, knowing what covenants he has made in the temple doesn't help much, either.

[_Trevor]

Theres a new book out that you might be interested in. Prophets visiting with presidents isn't anything new.

Yes, and the only thing it needs to be complete is the prophet visiting with the president who has sworn his life to the LDS Church.

What a picture that would be!

[_Jason Bourne]

By the way, as an aside, every President for many years have had Billy Graham in to Chat and consult with them, Do you think if Romney were President and he invited Gordon Hinckley to the white house for a fireside chat that would be acceptable?

Hi Jason...

Interesting question!

I have to admit I would NOT be comfortable if Mitt invited Hinckley to the white house. Not at all.

I think GBH is a nice man don't get me wrong.

But my personal observation and experience suggests that the LDS church has a very strong hold over its believing members, and knowing the Mitt has made covenants to God regarding the church... (to consecrate himself, his time talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed him and with which he may bless him, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion), makes me shudder.

Maybe I'm wrong and maybe he doesn't agree with this, or no longer agrees with the church, or no longer wears garments, or holds to those covenants, or whatever.... nevertheless this covenant is pretty clear and if Mitt still holds to it, I'm uncomfortable for sure!

I do not know if Bush made promises/covenants to God that he would give everything he had and everything he will have to the building up of Billy Graham's church... ya know?

~dancer~

Certainly there is a difference here. And that is why I am quite sure Romney would never consult with SLC.