LDS and ex-LDS Self-Medication

[_Gazelam]

This is actually about self control.

We're supposed to be striving to be Godlike. Lets imagine for a moment a God that is incapable of controling his appetites. Here he has all this power to create worlds and all that is upon them, but imagine then that he is incapable of controling his desires and appetites.

Does he then bend people to his will? Does he take women because he finds them attractive? Does he destroy those who oppose him on a whim?

The kind of self control it would take to be a God is not something gained overnight, its a lifetime of excercising self control and in keeping ones perspective on long term effects of the choices we make. Its easy to say "its only natural", its natural to satisfy appetites and to take what you want when you want it. But isn't it the diciplined and well trained that we look up to and admire? Those that scrifice time in the gym, and in the study halls?

Couch potatoes and serial killers and child molesters are of coarce extreme examples of beign a slave to ones desires. Everytihng has degrees. If we know the things I just listed to be abhorant, then shouldent we strive in the opposite direction for the best withen us?

[_Polygamy Porter]

This is actually about self control.

Like not eating red meat as so commanded by your WoW?

Hmmmm which is worse, eating red meat or bopping the baloney?

by the way, are you on any Sandy candy?

[_barrelomonkeys]

This is actually about self control.

We're supposed to be striving to be Godlike. Lets imagine for a moment a God that is incapable of controling his appetites. Here he has all this power to create worlds and all that is upon them, but imagine then that he is incapable of controling his desires and appetites.

Does he then bend people to his will? Does he take women because he finds them attractive? Does he destroy those who oppose him on a whim?

The kind of self control it would take to be a God is not something gained overnight, its a lifetime of excercising self control and in keeping ones perspective on long term effects of the choices we make. Its easy to say "its only natural", its natural to satisfy appetites and to take what you want when you want it. But isn't it the diciplined and well trained that we look up to and admire? Those that scrifice time in the gym, and in the study halls?

Couch potatoes and serial killers and child molesters are of coarce extreme examples of beign a slave to ones desires. Everytihng has degrees. If we know the things I just listed to be abhorant, then shouldent we strive in the opposite direction for the best withen us?

I think that life is a once in a lifetime journey. There are so many pleasures that are all about us Gaz. Why not experience them without hurting others?

How does masturbation damage you?

I suppose I get your point - to endure to the end? To control yourself from carnal appetites because it makes you a stronger person? But does it really? I mean what purpose does it serve other than torture someone because they don't have release? When their body is designed to have this said release?

I just don't see where sexual appetites (not predatory!) that are normal for humans should have to be discouraged. This does not appear to me to be about self control and appears to be self-abusive in the extreme. Also appears to me to set up sexual hangups that may appear later in life.

When we don't know our own bodies and how to stimulate ourselves we usually get less joy out of intercourse with our partners as well... it seems that exploring ourselves and learning about our bodies is a natural step before we explore with a partner. It prepares us for a marriage. :)

[_Jersey Girl]

Replying randomly to posts...

Gaz

The kind of self control it would take to be a God is not something gained overnight, its a lifetime of excercising self control and in keeping ones perspective on long term effects of the choices we make.

Gaz, I honestly don't know how you can type the above with a straight face. What on earth makes you think you can EVER develop "the kind of self control" that it would "take to be a God"? Seriously, if anything smacks of wishful non-thinking it's the ideas you expressed above.

We are HUMAN BEINGS and that's all we ever will be. Do you honestly think there is ANYTHING we could possibly do over the course of a lifetime that would make us any LESS human?

[_Jersey Girl]

I agree that it's sort of odd to watch, monkeys. I suppose that when one has been living under a plethora of prohibitions (no alcohol, drugs, cigs, coffee, cussing, internet "anti" sites (!), read only this, watch only that, wear only these things, don't pierce your ears, no tatt's. etc.,) and when one decides that the system under which they've been living is bunk, there is likely a mind set that says " Oh yeah? You can't stop me now! Heck1 I'd throw on a halter top and light up on my way to Starbucks, too!

One thing about Porter. You'll have to look back to the post of yours that he replied to to confirm this...he usually says something like that "why do you want to be one of us?" or "You're not one of us" or asks "what are you doing here?" when challngened by a never-Mo. When the spotlight is shone in his face, he grabs it and turns it on you. Give the guy a break, it's all he's got.

:-D

Well what gets me is that it's always US? I mean really. Does PP think that ex-mos are 'normal' in the traditional sense? Seems like this board is a meeting ground to discuss how screwed up they are from their experience in the Church. And then when you mention it there's a knee jerk.

I know I'm abnormal. But I'm good with it! :D

I'm going to be perfectly outspoken in my comments now. Believe it or not, I often hold back from saying what I think even though others may not agree that I do.

It's NOT always us, monkeys. When Porter once stated to me that i wasn't "one of us", I asked him point blank why doesn't he say that to monkeys and Bond. His answer to that was something to the effect that you and Bond didn't act stupid or something like that.

When Porter is faced with challenge, he automatically attempts to shift the focus on to the person making the challenge. When he says that I (or someone else) acts stupid, what he means is he either isn't capable of defending what he puts out there or he doesn't care about it.

It has absolutely nothing at all with whether or not you are ex-Mo, TBM, or never-Mo. He uses the first thing he can think of as a defense. Does it matter where I shop? Does it matter where I live? Does my age matter?

Of course it doesn't.

Here, you've leveled criticism against Porter and he predictably dodges what you've said by shining that spotlight on you. Porter's remarks are defensive and given the personal history he's shared publicly, they are a perfectly normal response to personal criticism.

Is there some kind of unwritten or unspoken contract on this board where a person isn't suppose to say what they think? If so, then some of the ex-Mo's on this board haven't abandoned the groupthink of their former church.

There are people on this board who are unable to answer directly to criticism or challenge. Hell, there are many here who are unable to process a simple question and answer it.

Scratch is another good example of this. Did you see the post he made when I challenged the accuracy of his assertion/allegation that Juliann was "Mrs. Robbins" because he'd been wrong about my being Mrs. Robbins/Ztrolls/monkeys/etc.? He started blabbering about "who loves you Jersey Girl?"

Huh? What the hell does anyone's opinion of me or name calling got to do with the real fact that he was WRONG?

Absolutely nothing.

Then he said something to the effect that I should be careful who I pick fights with. Some sort of blustering veiled threat made in an attempt to shut me up from pointing out the obvious. That he was WRONG. I mean seriously, does Scratch actually think that kind of BS works with me? There are people on this board who would tell you otherwise!


My message to you, monkeys, is watch for when people attempt to derail the conversation. It's nothing more than them trying to avoid dealing with what you've said.

[_Jersey Girl]

This is actually about self control.

Like not eating red meat as so commanded by your WoW?

Hmmmm which is worse, eating red meat or bopping the baloney?

by the way, are you on any Sandy candy?

I would say that what's worse is that Joseph Smith and his buddies played a very bad joke on some very good people and people today are living it.

[_Jersey Girl]

Porter,

Neither monkeys or I, want to be "one of you". No more so than the atheists on this board want to be believers, the TBM's want to be EV's, or those who discuss politics wish to be politicians. If you think that no one should criticize you on this board and that those who think differently than you do should shut up...then you, sir, should go straight back to the church you left and become it's #1 apologist or better yet...start your own MAD board.

[_barrelomonkeys]

I'm going to be perfectly outspoken in my comments now. Believe it or not, I often hold back from saying what I think even though others may not agree that I do.

I have ALWAYS held back on saying what I think. I'm in a rather pissy mood at the moment and will probably regret not tempering my words... but I'm still trying to moderate what I say to some extent. I'm just TIRED as all get out of others being cruel and sitting back and taking it. Others assume I'm weak because I take it - when I watch them and think what a tragedy they are. So who knows? I'll try to refrain from being cruel. The thing is I do NOT want to be cruel and work VERY hard on that. But sometimes you just gotta tell people what is up!


You're right. PP did shift the focus. Absolutely!

[_Jersey Girl]

monkeys

You're right. PP did shift the focus. Absolutely!

Hint: When he does that, it's not about you...it's about him.

[_Gazelam]

Replying randomly to posts...

Gaz

The kind of self control it would take to be a God is not something gained overnight, its a lifetime of excercising self control and in keeping ones perspective on long term effects of the choices we make.

Gaz, I honestly don't know how you can type the above with a straight face. What on earth makes you think you can EVER develop "the kind of self control" that it would "take to be a God"? Seriously, if anything smacks of wishful non-thinking it's the ideas you expressed above.

We are HUMAN BEINGS and that's all we ever will be. Do you honestly think there is ANYTHING we could possibly do over the course of a lifetime that would make us any LESS human?

Jersey, come on, you really mean to tell me that you don't know whatI'm talking about here?

What did the Savior say? Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

This same encouragement/commandment is stated in numerous other places throughout all scripture. Did the Savior mean this coudl be achieved in this life? Of coarce not, but there are those who came close. Men like Adam, Noah, Abraham, Melchizedek.....

The point is to get as close as we can. Christ was our example to strive after, was he not? He prayed for us to be able to have the strength to do so:
John 17:19-23
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


This view is stated very well in 2 Nephi 31:16-21

16 And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.
17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.
18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.
19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow apath, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eeternal life.
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.


The same spirit that possesses our body when we go out of this life will rise with us in the resurrection. Will it be a spirit who strove to be Christlike? Or a spirit that is a slave to the temporal carnal desires, being no more godlike than a dog? Will you be a man who is godlike, or an animal, down on all fours and sniffing?

The choice is ours.