Some Ex-LDS Men Are Immature Morons!

[_William Schryver]

Perhaps the problem I encounter on this board is that I grew up with absolutely no guilt associated with sexuality. I was never taught that it was a sin -- sexuality was normal and something we should embrace and enjoy.

This was precisely my experience. I remember distinctly my mother taking me aside as a . . . oh, probably 8 or 9 year old . . . (my parents were divorced when I was 2, so I didn't really know my father) and she gave me the straight stuff about sex. Said it was great. Recommended waiting for marriage, but didn't lay any "it's dirty and gross" stuff on me at all. And I grew up in the center of Davis County, Utah -- not Amsterdam or Tokyo.

As a teenager (okay, I actually was only 12 the first time) I started making out with any chick that would take on my extra-large lips and slobbery tongue. And despite a few close calls along the way, I somehow retained my virginity until I was married at 21 to a 24-year-old virgin from San Jose, CA. We didn't have the slightest idea what we were doing the first night . . . but we persisted with all due diligence. And now 25 years later we're freaking pros. (By the way, men and women in their 40s and 50s may have suffered a bit due to the ravages of gravity, but they often make up for it with a skill-set that would put to shame any 20-something on the planet.)

Anyway, I share this only to put to rest the notion that all TBMs are sexually repressed or something of the sort. I'm sure there are couples out there who have problems, and my wife and I are probably not necessarily typical (at least we keep telling each other that we're the best of the best!), but if there are sexual hangups among Mormons, I doubt they are any more prevalent than they are in the general population of religious people -- and I blame Catholicism and Conservative Protestantism for that. Indeed, I thought it was Joseph Smith and the Mormons who were supposed to be the libertines of the religious world!

All I know is that I have always viewed sex as a matter best left to the discretion of the couple behind the closed doors, and so if some church official or regular member spouted off something that revealed his/her own hangups, I just attributed it to his/her particular upbringing, and then laughed as my wife leaned over to whisper "I feel sorry for his wife/her husband."

[_asbestosman]

And I grew up in the center of Davis County, Utah -- not Amsterdam or Tokyo.

Me too. Well, except for the mission to Holland anyhow. I suppose I did a fair amount of growing up there.

[_William Schryver]

And I grew up in the center of Davis County, Utah -- not Amsterdam or Tokyo.

Me too. Well, except for the mission to Holland anyhow. I suppose I did a fair amount of growing up there.

My brother went to Holland on his mission ("Schryver") -- he went to hell in a handbasket while he was gone. Came home and got worse. Died four years ago from 20 years of bad living. He told me horror stories about the mission he was in -- sounded like there was at least a small group of total "run amoks."

[_barrelomonkeys]

Anyway, I share this only to put to rest the notion that all TBMs are sexually repressed or something of the sort. I'm sure there are couples out there who have problems, and my wife and I are probably not necessarily typical (at least we keep telling each other that we're the best of the best!), but if there are sexual hangups among Mormons, I doubt they are any more prevalent than they are in the general population of religious people -- and I blame Catholicism and Conservative Protestantism for that. Indeed, I thought it was Joseph Smith and the Mormons who were supposed to be the libertines of the religious world!

Well.... I was a bit hot when I started this thread. :)

I made gross generalizations hoping everyone would know I was talking about just a few men. Also hoping the poll results would allow me to feel better.

Wanted to have someone else agree that any men thinking I troll the internet for a liaison is an idiot. :D

[Reflexzero]

My brother went to Holland on his mission ("Schryver") -- he went to hell in a handbasket while he was gone. Came home and got worse. Died four years ago from 20 years of bad living. He told me horror stories about the mission he was in -- sounded like there was at least a small group of total "run amoks."

I'm sorry for your loss. That must have been rough to lose a brother (even more-so to watch and see the gradual progression towards the end).

[_William Schryver]

asbestosman wrote:
Me too. Well, except for the mission to Holland anyhow. I suppose I did a fair amount of growing up there.

Schryver wrote:
My brother went to Holland on his mission ("Schryver" = Dutch for "writer") -- he went to hell in a handbasket while he was gone. Came home and got worse. Died four years ago from 20 years of bad living. He told me horror stories about the mission he was in -- sounded like there was at least a small group of total "run amoks."

I'm sorry for your loss. That must have been rough to lose a brother (even more-so to watch and see the gradual progression towards the end).

In his case, he got to the point where mortality wasn't working for him anymore -- so although it was sad to see the final chapter play out, it was kind of a relief in a way. He had done so much damage to his body and his mind that he had passed a point of no return. The only thing left was for him to move on and hope the mercy of God would be sufficient for him to resume his eternal progression in a different venue. Not that he "chose" to move on. It was kind of like Hendrix and Morrison and Joplin. In the words of the immortal Roy Buchanan: it was a case of accidental suicide. One night he drank too much and took too many of the wrong kinds of meds, and sometime in his sleep he woke up on the other side -- no doubt wondering for a moment exactly what had happened. I guess the good part, if there is such a thing, is that he never really lost his faith or his testimony. Despite all his "thorns in the flesh" he would defend the church to the very end. There's gotta be something to be said for that.

The sad part is that he was the second of my younger brothers to do the same thing. The other one died about ten years ago. Thankfully the remaining three brothers and my sister have never struggled with such things.

Alas, they (the two now-dead brothers) were the inspiration for several good songs I wrote over the years. I've PMed you (on your MA&D account) the words to a couple examples. Let me know what you think. When I get them recorded, I'll send you the songs, too.

By the way, I'm thinking of making a trip to your neighborhood next Wednesday afternoon. I'll let you know beforehand and maybe we can meet up for a burger or something.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Will, I'm sorry for the loss of your brothers.

[_William Schryver]

Will, I'm sorry for the loss of your brothers.

My mourning period has long since passed and I'm now content to know they are in a better place. Nevertheless, I sincerely thank you for your condolences.

Also, (and I suppose this constitutes an abrupt change of mood for my post!) if that is your real photo at the start of this thread, I can only say, "Nice lips!" There are other nice things I can discern in the photo as well, but I'll try to keep us in the "Terrestrial" ballpark for this thread. ;-)

Does this mean I'm flirting with you now?

If so, my wife would probably not be surprised. Although I've been a completely faithful husband for over 25 years of marriage, I have been an incorrigible flirt during that period -- and occasionally I have flirted myself into awkward positions where my bluffs were called and I had to beat a hasty retreat!

So, although I have occasionally looked at the menu, I always go home for dinner. ;-)

[_asbestosman]

My brother went to Holland on his mission ("Schryver") -- he went to hell in a handbasket while he was gone. Came home and got worse. Died four years ago from 20 years of bad living. He told me horror stories about the mission he was in -- sounded like there was at least a small group of total "run amoks."

Sorry to hear about that. By the time I was in Holland (10 years ago), I hadn't heard much about "run amoks". There were a few missionaries who liked to goof off, but I didn't hear anything to suggest that drugs were a problem for missionaries. Staring at the wrong billboards was apparently a bigger issue. Getting too close to women seemed to be another one. I heard stories of missionaires get stoned while at other people's homes, but the Elders weren't trying to get stoned. Other than that there were stories about missionaries who tried mailing some cannibus leaves home by laminating them. However, that apparently was before my time. I also heard a story about missionaries turning a baptisimal font into a hot tub and inviting sister missionaries. Again, all before my time.

Sorry to hear about your brother. It is indeed remarkable that many still have their testimonies despite their other weaknesses. I heard many interesting stories about others in Holland in that regard too (Charlie the Amsterdam mime, for example).

[_LifeOnaPlate]

I don't feel sexually repressed, either; no problems here.