Polygamy---Commanded by God in the Old Testament or Tolerated?

[_Yoda]

Since the Chastity Thread has seemed to focus in a new direction, I thought I would start a new topic.

This is the current question being asked/debated:

Did God command polygamy, or was it a cultural norm that was tolerated by God? Good men whom he chose to be prophets participated in this culture, but was it commanded?

[_Ray A]

Did God command polygamy, or was it a cultural norm that was tolerated by good men whom he chose to be prophets?

I could quote scriptures, but I'm too lazy to look them up at the moment (early morning). I don't believe God ever commanded polygamy. In the case of Abraham, his wife Sarah was unable to have children. Of interest is that Sarah was the one who suggested that Abraham take a concubine (he was not officially married to Hagar), and this may have some pertinence to the idea in D&C 132 that the wife has to give consent (which was not always adhered to). As far as I'm aware, God didn't command Jacob to take any wives, but this may be in harmony with the Book of Mormon idea that polygamy is permitted under certain circumstances, to "raise up seed", and in Jacob's case this seems to apply. The kings of Israel were commanded not to "multiply wives", lest they become corrupt, as did David and Solomon. For a brief summary (I know, very scholarly):

Judaism

Scriptural evidence indicates that polygamy among the ancient Hebrews, though not extremely common, was not particularly unusual and was certainly not prohibited or discouraged. The Hebrew scriptures document approximately forty polygamists, including such prominent figures as Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Esau, and David, with little or no further remark on their polygamy as such. The Torah, Judaism's central text, includes a few specific regulations on the practice of polygamy, such as Exodus 21:10, which states that multiple marriages are not to diminish the status of the first wife; Deuteronomy 21:15-17, which states that a man must award the inheritance due to a first-born son to the son who was actually born first, even if he hates that son's mother and likes another wife more[14]; and Deuteronomy 17:17, which states that the king shall not have too many wives.[15] One source of polygamy was the practice of levirate marriage, wherein a man was required to marry and support his deceased brother's widow, as mandated by Deuteronomy 25:5-10.

In the modern day, Rabbinic Judaism has essentially outlawed polygamy. Ashkenazi Jews have followed Rabbenu Gershom's ban since the 11th century.[16] Some Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews (particularly those from Yemen and Iran) discontinued polygamy much more recently, as they emigrated to countries where it was forbidden. The State of Israel has forbidden polygamous marriages, but instituted provisions for existing polygamous families immigrating from countries where the practice was legal.

Among Karaite Jews, who do not adhere to Rabbinic interpretations of the Torah, polygamy is non-existent today, primarily because Karaites interpret Leviticus 18:18 to mean that a man can only take a second wife if his first wife gives her consent (Keter Torah on Leviticus, pp.96—97). Furthermore, Karaites interpret Exodus 21:10 to mean that a man can only take a second wife if he is capable of maintaining the same level of marital duties due to his first wife; the marital duties are 1) food, 2) clothing, and 3) sexual gratification. Because of these two biblical limitations, polygamy is considered impractical, and there are no known cases of it among Karaite Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy

It seems that in some circumstances in ancient times polygamy was "practical", but in later times it was discouraged, and sometimes forbidden.

[_Yoda]

So, Ray, based on the information you gave here, and your own personal views....Do you think that polygamy is an eternal law, commanded by God, as Joseph Smith claims?

[_Ray A]

So, Ray, based on the information you gave here, and your own personal views....Do you think that polygamy is an eternal law, commanded by God, as Joseph Smith claims?

No I don't, Liz, no more than I believe in the Council of Fifty and the political kingdom of God. The books Mormon Enigma, and Compton's In Sacred Loneliness were enough to persuade me that polygamy was a "failed experiment". The Church abandoned it, and today the prophets almost deny it, like Pres. Hinckley's statement "it's behind us". Their attempts to downplay it by suggesting it was "only practiced on a limited scale" shows that they want to create more distance from the past. I think Mormon Enigma is one of the best sources for understanding Joseph's wavering and occasional doubt on this subject, and he wavered on very little. The Witnesses condemnation of polygamy is also significant. This is one of the main reasons Whitmer felt Joseph became a "fallen prophet", just like David and Solomon. His Address To All Believers in Christ reveals his attitude to polygamy. He didn't believe it was in harmony with the Book of Mormon, either.

I have other reasons for not accepting polygamy, but these go into my further studies from Near Death Experiences and the afterlife, and in that context, polygamy makes absolutely no sense.

[_Yoda]

Thanks for your research and your opinions, Ray! :)

This is an interesting discussion.

I have some further thoughts on this that I will share later. I'm off to a meeting.

Thanks again, and I welcome others to participate as well!

:)

[_truth dancer]

Hi Liz...

I think you would enjoy reading, The Origins of Patriarchy by Gerda Lerner.

First I do not think God had anything whatsoever to do with the Old Testament...

Since patriarchy began, rich and powerful men owned women. This included wives, concubines, and slaves.

Marriage was a contract between MEN... fathers sold their daughters to men. The women were the possession traded, swaped and purchased.

Nothing about God in this... it was the way patriarchy developed in these nomadic tribal warring groups.

The thing is, the harem life style is maladaptive for the human. This is so totally clear and indisputable. The idea of God WANTING, demanding, creating, commanding such a primitive, animalistic, maladaptive way of life goes against the very nature of how humans evolved to survive.

Of course I do not think there are humans in heaven having sex, procreating for eternity, and all that but to think that God commands humans to revert to a very, VERY animalistic, primitive form of mating just totally goes against anything that could possibly be holy, IMHO! ;-)

~dancer~

A couple of other books that may help... The History of the Wife, and, Marriage: a History. Both are excellent!

[_moksha]

Do any other religious groups besides the LDS branch of Christianity, claim that harems stem from God's wishes?

[_Yoda]

Hi Liz...

I think you would enjoy reading, The Origins of Patriarchy by Gerda Lerner.

First I do not think God had anything whatsoever to do with the Old Testament...

Since patriarchy began, rich and powerful men owned women. This included wives, concubines, and slaves.

Marriage was a contract between MEN... fathers sold their daughters to men. The women were the possession traded, swaped and purchased.

Nothing about God in this... it was the way patriarchy developed in these nomadic tribal warring groups.

The thing is, the harem life style is maladaptive for the human. This is so totally clear and indisputable. The idea of God WANTING, demanding, creating, commanding such a primitive, animalistic, maladaptive way of life goes against the very nature of how humans evolved to survive.

Of course I do not think there are humans in heaven having sex, procreating for eternity, and all that but to think that God commands humans to revert to a very, VERY animalistic, primitive form of mating just totally goes against anything that could possibly be holy, IMHO! ;-)

~dancer~

A couple of other books that may help... The History of the Wife, and, Marriage: a History. Both are excellent!

Thanks for the book recommendations, TD! I will definitely check these out! :)

[_truth dancer]

Do any other religious groups besides the LDS branch of Christianity, claim that harems stem from God's wishes?

Hey Mok...

There are a few fringe sects/cults here and there who hold to the OTideals, but as far as I know, most mainstream Christian folks believe, and rightly so, that the harem lifestyle is akin to slavery.... an archaic practice less than holy and quite animalistic.

~dancer~

[_Yoda]

My best girlfriend, Barbi, died in a car crash 15 years ago. She left behind a husband, Ty, and a little girl. Her husband remarried, and his second wife has raised this baby girl as her own. However, she has saved pictures, etc., and has always helped this girl get to "know" her real mother. She put together a scrapbook for her, and has also preserved the wedding dress that her mother made.

I know that my friend, Barbi, appreciates what Ty's wife has done to help her daughter. Ty is sealed to both of these women. Somehow, I think that in the next life, they will work out a way to be a family.

I think that there are some cases where plural marriage could happen and work in an eternal sense. However, I think that a situation could just as easily happen "in reverse", where a woman who marries twice could have two husbands in the next life. That is not something that the Church teaches, but I think that a loving God would allow for such circumstances.

The bottom line is, I think that God would want his children to be happy, and to be with people they love. The problem I have with polygamy as it exists in the Old Testament, is, as TD has pointed out, it is based on the wealth of men, and their "ownership" of women.

A marriage that truly works is much more evolved and involves the solid commitment of two people in an equal partnership.

I allow for the fact that we only have a small glimpse of the capacity to love, and that it might be possible to form a partnership with more than one person in the hereafter, but I think that it could work both ways. And I also think that these circumstances would be exceptions rather than norms. I don't believe that plural marriage is a requirement for exaltation as Brigham Young seemed to believe.