Mormon Inc.

[_jskains]

My wife graduated from a non-profit university. She recently found out that its president is making $2M a year (its an elite school). In an unaudited non-profit such as the LDS church, how do you that there aren't many people who are earning large salaries for doing little or nothing?

Optimism..

JMS

[_JAK]

The organization itself takes it home, Josh. Here is a short list of companies owned by the LDS church:

Deseret Management Corporation - http://www.deseretmanagement.com/
Beneficial Financial Group - http://www.beneficialfinancialgroup.com/
Bonneville International - http://www.bonnint.com/
Bonneville Communications - http://www.bonneville.com/
Bonneville Interactive Services
Bonneville Satellite - http://www.bonnevillesatellite.com/
35 Radio Stations
1 Television Station (KSL)
Deseret Book - http://deseretbook.com/
Excel Entertainment - http://www.xelent.com/
Deseret Morning News - http://deseretnews.com/dn
Hawaii Reserves - http://www.hawaiireserves.com/
Polynesian Cultural Center (PCC) - http://www.polynesia.com/ and http://www.polynesia.co.jp/
La'ie Shopping Center
La'ie Park
La'ie Cemetary
Hukilau Beach Park
La'ie Water Company
La'ie Treatment Works (sewer)
Mstar.net - http://www.mstar.net/preportal/index.asp
Temple Square Hospitality - http://www.htsc.net/ and http://www.hoteltsc.com/
Weddings (JSMB and Lion House)
The Inn at Temple Square - http://www.diningattemplesquare.com/
Lion House Pantry - http://www.diningattemplesquare.com/
The Roof Restaurant - http://www.diningattemplesquare.com/
The Garden Restaurant - http://www.diningattemplesquare.com/
Passages Restaurant - http://www.diningattemplesquare.com/
Zions Securities Corporation - http://www.zsc.com/

Farm Management Corporation (commericial farms and agricultural properties)
Deseret Land and Livestock
200,000 acres of land in Rich, Morgan and Weber counties (Utah)
Sun Ranch (Martin's Cove)
Deseret Ranches of Florida (Orlando) (largest ranch in Florida)
Deseret Farms of California
Rolling Hills (Idaho)
West Hills Orchards (Elberta, Utah)
Cactus Lane Ranch (Arizona)
(more)

Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (CPB)
Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Deseret Trust Company
LDS Family Services
Property Reserves Inc. (PRI)
Ensign Peak Advisors - http://www.imno.org/articles.asp?qid=123

Deseret Mutual Benefit Administrators (DMBA) - http://www.dmba.com/

Brigham Young University (BYU) - http://home.BYU.edu/webapp/home/index.jsp
BYU - Idaho - http://www.byui.edu/
BYU - Hawaii - http://www.byuh.edu/index.jsp
LDS Business College - http://www.ldsbc.edu/

Agreserves Australia LTD Kooba Station,Australia.
Deseret Ranches of Alberta Raymond,AB Canada
Agreserves LTD Cambridge,England
AgroReservas, S.C. Los Mochis, Mexico
Deseret Farms of CA Woodland, CA
Deseret Farms of CA Modesto,CA
Deseret Farms of CA Chico,CA
South valley Farms Bakersfield, CA
Deseret Security Farms Blythe, CA
Naples Farms Naples,Florida
Deseret Cattle & Citrus ST. Cloud, Florida
Deseret Farms of Ruskin Ruskin, Florida
Kewela Plantation O'ahu,HI

Rex Ranch Ashby, NE
Riverbend Farms ST.Paul, OR
Deseret Land & Livestock Woodruff, UT
Wasatch-Dixie Farms Elberta, UT
Agreserves Cottle CO.,Texas
Agrinorthwest kennewick,Washington
Handcart Ranch Alcova, WY
Deseret Ranches of Wyoming Cody,WY

And let's not forget the newly added two billion dollar mall in downtown SLC.

Thanks for the research, Trinity

JAK

[_JAK]

JAK claims that the Mormon Church tries to transfer wealth from its members.. Since it is non-profit with no stockholders and the church basically can have no end-year profits, what exactly is the value of building up all this wealth other than providing services BACK to the members?

Welfare programs, church construction, temple contruction, free marriages, free social activities, charity work. I am not seeing this pattern of Evil Jak seems to see.

JMS

jskains,

Do you have the slightest idea what it costs just to maintain the organs at the Mormon Tabernacle/Temple Square? The evidence for transfer of wealth is irrefutable.

Mormon Tabernacle Organs

Scroll down for some pictures.

Console of the organ at Mormon Tabernacle

Click on picture of the console to see it enlarged.

In the beginning, the organ was powered by hand-pumped bellows, later by water power, and today by electricity. With improved techniques in organ construction, the instrument has been renovated and enlarged several times. Now comprising 11,623 pipes, the organ has 206 ranks of voices, and the console has 5 manuals, or keyboards. The Tabernacle organ is considered to be one of the finest organs in the world.

This is perhaps the most famous of the organs owned by the Mormon church in Salt Lake City.

Literally, many millions have been invested in the single instrument which you see (console) here.

The construction and many renovations have not been free. Mormons pay.

I am not objecting to the wealth imported for culture and music. My point was and is that the wealth of the Mormon church is enormous. It’s real estate holdings are vast. And all that is achieved by savy management of acquisition of wealth.

So while there are no “stockholders,” there are holders of wealth generated by the money-making machine of the Mormon church.

JAK

[_harmony]

That great white travesty off of I-5 just North of San Diego by La Jolla cost how much?

Hey! That's a beautiful building! We just returned home from a trip to San Diego, and that building is gorgeous. And it's a legitimate use of tithing.

What I object to is the lack of transparency. And the billion dollar gift to the residents of SLC.

[_Jason Bourne]

My wife graduated from a non-profit university. She recently found out that its president is making $2M a year (its an elite school). In an unaudited non-profit such as the LDS church, how do you that there aren't many people who are earning large salaries for doing little or nothing?

We don't.

[_JAK]

JAK claims that the Mormon Church tries to transfer wealth from its members.. Since it is non-profit with no stockholders and the church basically can have no end-year profits, what exactly is the value of building up all this wealth other than providing services BACK to the members?

Welfare programs, church construction, temple contruction, free marriages, free social activities, charity work. I am not seeing this pattern of Evil Jak seems to see.

JMS

I think you need to look into business law, how nonprofits work and also look into inter operational financial mechanisms and logistical methods. Once you do that you will have a clear picture on how a small collection of Mormon families have ultimate power over who receives tithing funds. It all goes back to a select few. Its an oligarchy. There is no great conspiracy besides a system of patrilinear Mormon wealth that has a certain religion as its main source of contracts.

Those who give to this organization are chattel to the Mormon elite.

Go away..

JMS

jskains,

You have not offered a shred of evidence in refutation to the many posts here including those of Mercury and the extensive documentation done by Trinity.

You claimed you wanted discussion of and on the issues. You demonstrate with your “Go away..” line that you have not the slightest interest or capacity to address evidence and analysis before you. It is others who have engaged in rational discussion and the presentation of information and evidence.

Blind faith is blind.

Ignorance that is bliss remains ignorance.

JAK

[_LCD2YOU]

The thing I object to with ALL religions (it is easy to see where the Catholic churches money is going - lawsuits) is how they hide money.

It is not just the LDS org.

But as this is the LDS board, I would like to know how much the LDS gave to Katrina. For a Church that rakes in money hand over fist, if they were to give in charity $500M total each year but they are pulling in $50B, 1% is anything but generous.

[_JAK]

The thing I object to with ALL religions (it is easy to see where the Catholic churches money is going - lawsuits) is how they hide money.

It is not just the LDS org.

But as this is the LDS board, I would like to know how much the LDS gave to Katrina. For a Church that rakes in money hand over fist, if they were to give in charity $500M total each year but they are pulling in $50B, 1% is anything but generous.

LCD2YOU,

Your analysis is correct. The US gave $500,000,000 for the construction of homes for Katrina victims who lost theirs. Thus far, 1.1 million has actually gone for those homes. The rest, we are told, has gone for “administrative costs.” CNN had a news spot on this very topic today and detailed the information. It is likely available presently on the CNN web page, but I have not looked it up.

In any case, your statement:
The thing I object to with ALL religions (it is easy to see where the Catholic churches money is going - lawsuits) is how they hide money is good analysis. The Roman Catholic Church has enormous wealth. While some has gone to pay lost law suits, it’s pocket change for the wealth controlled by the RCC.

It is also correct that religious organizations large and small are able to hide wealth since they are generally not accountable to any outside investigative body (such as the government).

You are quite right that the LDS is hardly alone in the concealing of wealth. The structures which they have built, the businesses which they control, and the real estate which is theirs free of taxation is evidence.

Now you stated: “But as this is the LDS board…”

I have seen many Mormon sponsored boards, and I am skeptical that the Mormon church would have approval or support for this particular discussion group. There are far to many informed people here for the official Mormon Church to be very approving. I’m quite open to have you enlighten me if this conclusion is incorrect.

The fact that our own government (with the words of President Bush) promised great help for the victims of Katrina and the fact that the “help” never arrived at the level (the bottom) where it was most needed is an ugly blight revealing the difference between word and deed.

So where did the money go? We are not likely ever to know. What we do know is that it did not make homes for victims of the storm except for a less than one percent of the total that was supposed to be for the victims.

Part of the hidden wealth in religion is benefits and under the table distribution of wealth to those at the top. Contracts are awarded, money is paid, and there is little if any public accounting for that to those who gave the money to the organization (church).

JAK

[_LCD2YOU]

JAK,

For this statement:

Now you stated: “But as this is the LDS board…”

means that I will talk about the LDS church and its handling of money.

Don't worry, I have loud, vocal and nasty fights with my family, who still give to the RCC Church, and I've been asked to leave Catholic boards before.

Joke of the day:

It was the RCC that invented the first laptops:

They are called "altar boys".

[_Jason Bourne]

The thing I object to with ALL religions (it is easy to see where the Catholic churches money is going - lawsuits) is how they hide money.

It is not just the LDS org.

But as this is the LDS board, I would like to know how much the LDS gave to Katrina. For a Church that rakes in money hand over fist, if they were to give in charity $500M total each year but they are pulling in $50B, 1% is anything but generous.

Uhh...do you know that they pull in 50 Billion a year? no. Nor do I? But in the late nineties a reasonable article in Times estimated annual revenue at about 5-6 billion.

Now, you uave to understand that the LDS Church has as one of its main purposes the running of a church. Church's cost money to run. Meeting houses and temples cost money to maintain. Lesson manuals and other supplies and activities of wards cost money. The Church also maintains four colleges. This is going to take a lot of the organizations money.On top of that the Church give a lot to local members that are in financial distress. I noted above that my ward gives about $50,000 annually to welfare assistance on a local level. If we assume that the average is $20,000 per ward and we have about $25,000 wards then that alone is $500,000,000 a year. On top of that the Church gives other humanitarian aid, does donate to disaster like Katrina, gives education support through perpetual education fund and so on.

Do it is clear the Church gives a lot. Now I am with you. I wish they would publish financial. And other Church's do so. But guess what? US law does not require them to do so. So you can lobby congress to change the law. Also, someone here once posted a link to the LDS Church's UK financial which are published. So maybe you could find those and take a look though that does not give th full picture.